RANDOM THOUGHTS

Image result for milkshake farage

Today in Newcastle, England, someone threw a milkshake over Mr Farage’s expensive suit. And some Remainers are celebrating this.

But not Tris or Munguin. Are we alone in this?

The way to win political arguments is by having strong counter-arguments to offer, not soaking people in milk, no matter what flavour.

Seriously, many people had a laugh about it because, among Remainers, Nigel Farage is a hate figure, a bit ridiculous and well… it serves him right.

Fair enough. But, apart from giving people a laugh, what has this action done?

Well first, it seems to be the main story everywhere. The Twittersphere is humming with it. But I’ve yet to see social media mention of the fact that the Electoral Commission is looking into the financing of Mr Farage’s new party, although to be fair it is being covered by the old media.

James O’Brien

If I was worried about a former Prime Minister expressing fears about my new ‘party’ laundering dirty foreign money, I would probably pay someone to lob a milkshake at me & hope that the relatively trivial story distracted attention from the profoundly serious one.
So, intentional or not, there it is: people are talking about the milkshake and not about the possible criminality.

Secondly, covering someone, even Farage, in milkshake, is violence. And no matter how satisfying it is to see, it’s simply increased the likelihood of retaliatory violence from his supporters, and they might not use milkshakes.

Added to which, at the moment it has given him victim status.

And thirdly, how many people will it have persuaded to change their votes on Thursday? Well, probably none at all… but if any, it will have persuaded them the wrong way.

I can see why people think it is amusing, and in a way it is, so I don’t want to fight about it, but in my opinion, it will be counterproductive.

**********Daft trump

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That was then…

…and this is now

 

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

If Iran wants to fight, that will be the official end of Iran. Never threaten the United States again!

9:25 PM · May 19, 2019 · Twitter for iPhone

 

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM…

**********

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37 thoughts on “RANDOM THOUGHTS”

    1. I was beginning to think that I was the only one who thought that way, Terry.

      Twitter seems to be gloating over it. But I just couldn’t see how exactly it benefited the Remain movement.

      Like

  1. It is completely unacceptable in a democratic society for politicians of any sort to be subject to violence.
    That is only playing into the hands of those who wish to bypass the democratic process.
    I saw on STV news tonight that a Tory councillor from Lanarkshire (I think) has had his car fire bombed outside his home.
    Using violence against anyone legally expressing their political views has to be stamped out.
    That is not the sort of society I wish to live in.
    The best way to deal with those politicians that you may disagree with is to ignore them and ensure that they do not get your vote at election time.
    I despise what Farage represents but I do intend to ignore him and neither he,nor any of his associates will be getting my vote any time soon.
    Having said that,at least during his previous visit to our capital city,he was given police protection and run out of town in the back of a police van before anyone could milk bomb him.
    A waste of good Geordie milk!

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Yes, I agree with that.

      If it’s OK to throw a relatively harmless milk shake, at what point does violence become unacceptable. And if it’s OK to soak Farage because he wants to take Britain out of the EU, doesn’t it make it ok to soak Nicola Sturgeon because she wants to take Scotland out of the UK?

      I heard about the councillor who had his car fire bombed. Something to do with a puppy farm, I read. But whatever it was it is utterly unacceptable.

      Not,as they say, in my name.

      As you say, the way to deal with politicians you disagree with, is to refuse to vote for them.

      Like

  2. All that said, I had to laugh at this tweet:

    Adam
    @adamtweets85

    Nigel Farage: “If #brexit isn’t delivered, I will be forced to don khaki and pick up a rifle”.

    Brexit Party fans: “Yey! Get in Nigel. What a guy!”

    Someone throws a #milkshake over Nigel.

    Brexit Party fans: “That’s assault. A disgrace! Violence is awful. You’ve upset my Nige!”

    Liked by 1 person

  3. It occurs to me, Tris, that as the title of the blog today is “Random Thoughts” it could be said that it’s impossible to be Off Topic in commenting on them, so it’s a bit disappointing, in a way, that what follows is not a complete non-sequitur, even though it’s deliberately tendentious.

    Milkshakes (and Murphy’s egg). I am extremely intolerant of intolerance. It’s a point of view informed by my lifelong study (oh, OK, it’s a fair cop, guv – ever since I was a teenager) of authoritarian regimes in general and dictatorships in particular. In the tension between freedom of speech and silencing hate speech, my rule of thumb is that the freedom of speech to people must not be extended to those who intend to abolish it (and yes, I recognize the paradoxical nature of that position, and am well aware of Hitler’s “The great strength of the totalitarian State is that it forces those who fear it to imitate it”). The automatic response from the right to that “no platform” position the right generally boils down to “political correctness gone mad” – which is not to say that they don’t have any point at all. The response from further left along the political spectrum is to accuse carnaptious auld sods like me of the very authoritarianism we affect to abhor.

    I do NOT advocate violence as a first resort. There is, however, such a thing as nipping things in the bud… a pity no one assassinated Hitler and Stalin. I think we’ve all done that particular Gedankenexperiment. Could they and the horrors they engendered have been stopped by silencing them? Would social and historical forces have spat out other individuals to take their place and do the same things, in general if not in detail? There’s no control experiment possible, but if the souls of the many millions of people they murdered had a voice, they would most likely say that it would have been an experiment worth trying.

    Authoritarians in general and wannabe dictators in particular take advantage of our hard-won, fragile, contingent and necessarily circumscribed freedom of speech and expression to spread social (societal) poison in the form of propaganda, i.e., actual lies rather than fair comment or reasonable opinion, and the perversion of truth to advance purposes that are necessarily – ipso facto – nefarious. Liberal-minded, tolerant, freedom-loving democratic types, in other words, normal, well-adjusted personalities, in our sunny, optimistic way tend to err on the side of protecting people’s right to abuse freedom of speech over protecting the freedom of speech itself, and our own freedom to continue to enjoy it.

    As for determining what’s a lie and what’s not – as someone or other once said at some point in the past or other, facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed (https://t1p.de/ldgbsi). That’s why authoritarians do not like facts, dispute science, and are all unmoored to greater and lesser extents reality. No wonder they don’t: all their power – often, all their mundane wealth as well – is based on lies. Another unifying factor is that such people are spiritually impoverished emotional cripples. The differences between Bullingdon BoJo, the Donald, the Donald’s friend Nigel, Treeza, Orbán, Duterte, Erdoğan, all the dictators of 20th-century Europe and elsewhere and elsewhen – are differences of degree, of quantity, not quality. To paraphrase Orwell, the constant in human affairs is the boot stamping on the human face forever.

    The two main parties in England, Tories and Labour, are both stuffed, to different degrees, with Faragistes. The Brexist Party and UKIP famously are. They have also quite successfully infiltrated the Great British Meeja Machine; the conversion of BBC Question Time into the Ask Nigel Hour is just one sign of that. Couple an already right-wing meeja machine in general and dead tree press in particular, and hitch both into the political service of people who are – don’t whisper it, shout it from the rooftops – fascists, and you don’t have so much a chicken-and-egg situation as a particularly sinister sort of synergy.

    Which brings me neatly back to my starting point – eggs, and milkshakes. These are small beer. People who would make a bonfire of our liberties deserve no better, even if they do not deserve worse.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. “The automatic response from the right to that “no platform” position the right generally boils down to “political correctness gone mad”

      I’m sorry I don’t agree with you Ed. At the moment many women are, at best, being no platformed for raising concerns about self identification and its repercussions on sex based rights. That means only one side can be heard.

      (I know a couple of trans people post here – this is not anti trans but a genuine concern about predatory males abusing self identification to access women trans or not).

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I hear you on that one, PP, though it’s not a debate I’ve taken part in. I do wonder how evidence-based the concern is, though; it sounds to me a bit like America’s great Bathroom Laws debate. For a genetically male person to live as a woman is not an easy thing to do, and anything else is just dressing in drag. It seems strange to me that anyone would change their sex, officially, and commit to living as such for the rest of their lives in order to pull off a sex crime, a crime which is generally committed by people who are known to the victim.

        In talking to trans people here and there, there’s never been any doubt in my mind what gender they were inside.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. that’s the thing Ed, self identification DOESN’T require any surgery, any hormones, any medical assessment at all, merely declaration.

          You merely say you are a woman (or man) and that’s it. Karen Bradley didn’t have surgery (or take hormones?) and as an already convicted sex offender, went on to rape (has intact male genitila) women in the jail Karen was transferred to. Ian Huntley (unaware of any female name adopted) is also trying to transfer to a female prison. There are other cases too but they are not being published in msm. One known offender is attacking women in a rape crisis shelter in London, another has tried to gouge out the eyes of staff at another female only shelter.

          I know trans women irl too and they are not dangerous but then they’ve been assessed and are genuinely trans. But self identification that’s another story, and something predators will abuse. Interestingly one of trans MNR’s posters is against self identification too, though the other doesn’t appear to be. (I don’t want to name names even though both have self declared).

          Liked by 2 people

          1. I didn’t know about those cases, PP. However, they strike me as being particularly extreme, and there’s basically nothing we can do about sociopaths, or whatever the word is for such these days. If we only could… I’d venture to say that your average trans person, if there is such a thing, is going to be more aware of the whole sexism / gender stereotyping / sexuality thing than your average “plain vanilla” straight person whose physical sex and mental / spiritual identity coincide, as is the norm, and whose sexuality is straight down the middle (see what I did there) heterosexual.

            PP, I know you know that it is unfair to punish and suspect a whole group of people for the actions of a few – like condemning all the world’s Muslims for the actions of a few whose victims, on the whole, are Muslims themselves and are abhorred by them at least as much as by the rest of us. However, I do understand why so many women would want to meet and be and bloom and discover themselves in a safe, penis-free place free of the aroma of threat and testosterone, as there’s so much violence, trauma and triggering involved in relations between the sexes. Possibly the only way to get over it is to get to know one another individually.

            Liked by 1 person

            1. “PP, I know you know that it is unfair to punish and suspect a whole group of people for the actions of a few”

              Absolutely. I don’t want trans women banned from female only spaces. Nor do I suspect a whole group. I just want to stop predators from saying they are trans, without any element of gatekeeping, accessing protected spaces via self identity ONLY. In the above cases, its the women not the predators who have been told they can’t complain.

              If I whiter than a milk bottle turned up at a BEM event, declaring I was black and that everyone else was “cis black”, no darker than me and they should call themselves people with melanin, I’d be out the door before I finished my first sentence. Probably with a police escort. Rightly so. If I physically threatened them with violence for even politely questioning my right to be there and then tried to get them banned from future BME events, the world would have a fit. Rightly so.

              I’m NOT suspecting trans women of anything I’m pointing out the dangers of self identification. Self identification endangers trans women too as they will be exposed to the predators as well.

              Not it is punishment to require proof of status. I can self identity as retired if I like, but nobody is giving me state pension without proof of age. You can self identify as disabled if you like but the government aren’t going to give you disability benefits on that basis. I mean they aren’t giving disability benefits to folk who can actually prove their disability ffs.

              Age, disability, race and sex are protected characteristics under the Equality Act. Only sex based rights are facing being curtailed by self identity.

              Sorry for the long posts, folks. I think Ed and I are on the same page mostly but I’m against self identity. Period, the end.

              Liked by 1 person

              1. I think we may be at cross purposes a bit, PP!

                If the self-identification thing is a thing you do when you feel strongly enough that what you consider yourself to be is not what is written in your official documents, and you identify yourself as something else, then I think that is fine. People should be able to go ahead and do that, and change the documents. It’s not a thing to be undertaken lightly – no one is going to do it for fun. Changing one’s name is is a pain in the proverbials, I happen to know, and that must be as nothing compared to changing one’s sex / gender as well.

                Self-identification as a thing you can do on demand and as the fancy takes you for whatever purpose, innocent or otherwise, twice a day and three times on Sundays, is not at all what I understand by “self-identification”. Oops – I’m repeating myself – to me means getting aligning your necessary documents / IDs / driver’s licence / passport with what you consider yourself to be, rather than you having to align yourself to what your documents say you ought to be. That kind of self-identification eliminates the violation of people’s right to a private life involved in being required to see a doctor and a psychiatrist and answer lots of excessively intimate, personal and intrusive questions about your personal life, self-image, genitalia – for no medical purpose. As such I’m all for it: the only person who actually knows what your identity is – in all sorts of ways – is yourself.

                Another way of putting it, I suppose, is that I see self-identification as a means for people to be who they feel themselves to be without anyone being able to take it upon themselves to gainsay them. Your concern, I think, is about people pretending to be something they’re not, which means we’ve been talking about two different things.

                Liked by 1 person

    2. As usual, Ed, a well thought out argument. It’s hard to argue that, had someone slipped Hitler a vegetarian cyanide tablet, it would have been a bad thing. I still abhor violence, but your point that a little violence, but your point cannot be ignored.

      Certainly eggs and milkshakes are small beer by comparison (as indeed, I reckon, Farage is).

      But I wonder what it has achieved except to get him a shedload of sympathy. Indeed, a little like the Murphy egg situation, people are speculating whether it was a planned publicity stunt.

      Like

      1. I too have avoided the debate on the trans and bathrooms debate.

        I simply don’t know enough about it and it seems to me that there isn’t an easy solution. Of course, in many countries, some not so far from Scotland, the sanctity/privacy of public toilets is much less catered for.

        I can remember using urinals in France with a female cleaner mopping in the background.

        As I’ve said I don’t know enough about it to comment, so please don’t shout at me, but is it possible that perhaps, given society’s increased understanding of this situation, we need to have three bathroom options?

        Liked by 1 person

        1. Tris, that way lies madness! There are far too many combinations of sex / gender / sexuality to give everyone a bathroom each! And then you’d need to double it for those of us in wheelchairs!

          Things are bad enough already without descending into fear, paranoia and hysteria as a distraction from the real issues – sort of “Never mind global warming and America rattling its sabres at Iran, what are you going to do about the threat of trans women in ladies’ loos?”

          Trans women, by the way, particularly black trans women, are being murdered in the USA at a disturbingly high rate. As so often, it’s the people identified and scapegoated as a threat who are the victimized rather than the victimizers.

          Liked by 1 person

  4. This is fascinating.

    Would we allow a fascist to herd us?

    All of youse out there, yes or no?

    For the absence of doubt I would be aggrieved if a single Scotsman / Scotsperson, whatever, voted for Nigel Farage of that parish.

    We are much better than he.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. There will be some, Douglas, there will be some, including, no doubt, many of the überUnionists who spit bile and venom about us independentistas in general and that Nicola Sturgeon and that Alex Salmond in particular, and I’m sure I shall be just as aggrieved as you.

      One of the ways to make such people – supporters of the Farages of this world, and the Farages themselves – think again is for the rest of us, those who can, anyway, protest. Just saying so, alas, or even protesting on the streets in numbers that don’t reach the magic threshold of about 3.5% of the population, doesn’t work, at least, not immediately, and possibly not fast enough. The Powers That Be – and their wannabes – do what they think they can get away with – and they treat silence as consent.

      Protests must be both visible and muscular to have any immediate effect. I’m very much in favour of civil disobedience, peaceful civil disobedience; unlike some, though, I regard the flinging of eggs and milkshakes as property damage, like the Suffragettes chucking stones through windows; dry-cleaning bills and glaziers’ bills as opposed to hospital and undertakers’ bills, if you like. They are also high-visibility, awareness-raising forms of peaceful – yes, peaceful – protest. It’s rather difficult to protest against the bad governance of the few when They have the full force of the law – law they themselves write – without breaking a few laws along the way. Another way to put it would be that you can’t make an omelette without breaking eggs.

      There are perfectly legitimate arguments against the milkshake- and egg-lobbing form of protest (martyrdom for those targeted with milkshakes and eggs, the risk of retaliation, the risk of escalation, alienating the General Public). However, I would say that when dealing with the likes of Farage (and Trump, and BoJo, and May), we are not dealing with normal people. You can’t shame them, they think normal people are a mindless herd of sheep. Those of us whose protests are purely vocal are to them liberal snowflakes to be mocked. Rational argument does not work with them because they neither listen nor care.

      Thatcher did not leave because she recognized that the Poll Tax was a failure, she was forced out of office. Only her own party can throw Theresa May out of office at any point before she is kicked out in a general election. Donald Trump cannot successfully be impeached without the say-so of the Republicans in the Senate, nor will he leave unless forced to go – and if he alleges massive voter fraud next November, people, even an election on its own may not be enough to take him down. Such people – people with personality disorders that are significantly anti-social – will persist until figuratively whacked on the nose with a newspaper – or, on the same level but literally, until they are made the targets of milkshakes and eggs thrown with true aim.

      Liked by 1 person

  5. I’m with you Tris. It’s counterproductive, allows him to play the victim. He chuntered on about remainers becoming radicalised. FFS I dare him to go to a room of those who have lost loved ones to terrorism and explain how their loss is comparable to his milk shaking.

    This is a man who’s party was the only one to continue campaigning when the others stopped, temporarily, after Jo Cox’s murder. By a Brexit supporting far right activist.

    Unfortunately the Brexit party will get one and possibly two seats in the Euro elections, they will be the new home of the uber Brits. Dark times ahead.

    Cassandra

    Liked by 2 people

    1. PP: When there is a disintegration of a party line on Brexit from Labour and the Tories, it seems to be that the bulk of their core vote is either heading for one of the parties that has policies.

      No one can be sure about what either the Tories or Labour stands for, so for the 38% that voted for Brexit it seems fair enough to expect them to vote for Farage’s party. UKIP is, of course, a busted flush.

      So yes, it’s not unreasonable to expect that they will take a seat; maybe even two seats, in Scotland.

      James (Scot Goes Pop) has a wee video available over at his place

      http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2019/05/your-four-minute-guide-to-how-thursdays.html#comment-form

      Like

  6. Good comments Ed
    Nigel wasn’t physically hurt, only his ego and it showed.
    His well paid protection gang were the butt of his displeasure at being shaken by the milkshake.
    I understand his comments to them was that they should have seen it coming and prevented it happening. Perhaps the Newcastle polis weren’t as friendly as the Embra polis and stopped the sale of milkshakes in his aura.
    Yes it is counterproductive as the tame media have escalated the incident but it has also shown us another part of his personna.
    In the meantime we are about to be given a new PM, courtesy of the men in grey suits of the Tory party, remember they didn’t WIN the last election they are supported by the DUP, a bunch of flat earthers who think the world was created on a Monday afternoon 4321 years ago and still live in the Silver Age, silver worth £1Billion and who are reported to have spent £318.03 on LGBT rights.
    On the news this morning is the forecast of the sea level rising faster than predicted, the Crossrail System will be flooded by 2100 as will large parts of London.
    We are of course only worried about the waste of milk on an imported french name.
    I won’t be around by 2100 but my descendants will be.
    We don’t just want Scottish freedom for ourselves and a vote for a party that doesn’t want to represent us in the last days of Empire at the European Parliament and who’s placepeople will collect the retainer cash are not worth the vote.
    In the meantime, in Glasgow, a facility that looks after the rough sleepers is to close, to save money.
    Anything in the media, no, they’re the people Nigel and Co can ignore, They Don’t Vote.
    The lesson is clear to me anyway, i’ll be out casting my cross on Thursday. No point in wasting a good milkshake.

    Liked by 4 people

    1. I noticed, Dave, that Brexit took a back seat on the Today Programme, as the Tory leadership contest took the lead.

      Yipee. Andrea Leadson’s chance today to lay out her stall, which of course, is to support the Prime Minister (ahem) till she gets ditched in a few weeks.

      Strong and bloody stable?

      Liked by 1 person

  7. The phrase “Turkeys voting for xmas” comes to mind. How anyone in their right mind would vote for this fraud, Farage, is beyond me, but it seems that millions are about to do so in the E.U elections. Yes, including a close relative of mine.
    With the news this morning that British Steel is about to go into administration with tens of thousands of jobs losses, if you include the supply chain, and the company laying the blame squarely at the door of Brexit, I ask again how can anyone in their right mind vote for this no policies, well one, self-serving narcissist? And yet they will, in their droves.
    While in Scotland support to remain in Europe may have increased, even if a second E.U referendum is held we would still be outvoted, so while I understand the S.N.P position on this matter, the only way to escape this increasing madness is to become an independent nation once again.
    Not by any means an easy task, but, for the sake of future generations of Scots, one that must be achieved.

    Liked by 4 people

    1. I thought it odd that with 4,500 jobs at stake and another up to 20,000 supply chain and ancillary jobs at risk, it might have made the headlines on the BBC news. Especially given that it was in Scunthorpe and on Teesside, England.

      British Steel (which it isn’t; it’s Greybull Finance) says that Brexit is a huge contributory factor, although a price reduction in steel has also contributed.

      I think that Teesside and Lincolnshire both voted to leave.

      Liked by 1 person

  8. Above all else in a democracy is the rule of law.
    Without that,who gets to decide who is a dangerous extremist and must be eliminated or selected for “special” measures.
    Law is the foundation of democracy and all are treated equally,deep pockets and smart lawyers excepted.
    The democratic process determines what the law must be,except of course in Scotland where we don’t have those rights.
    Let’s direct our fire at the system which promotes such individuals,outwith the normal elective democratic process.
    HM press are largely responsible for much of this and in a true democracy,greater scrutiny would be applied to those who own and control our media to ensure a multiplicity of views are expressed.
    We are not in a healthy situation at present and this needs to be addressed.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Well, the large press barons own the Tory party (and to be honest when Labour is in power, they own Labour in a slightly different way) so Leveson One is as far as press regulation is likely to go.

      It is a great shame that Westminster is so incredibly incompetent and that Cameron got us into this mess by a mixture of self-interest and stupidity.

      Liked by 1 person

  9. Sorry to go off topic but the furore surrounding Huawei has annoyed me intensely and is in a way connected to multiplicity.
    Huawei may well represent a threat to democracy but no more so than many American corporations who have been rumoured for decades to have means of accessing their hardware through “unpublished” means.
    The threat to remove Google from the Huawei platforms also reinforces the need not to be dependent on an individual business or group of businesses for what is regarded now as essential services.
    Open source software provides a means to ensure accountability in that,generally,it is not controlled by individuals or small groups of people due to the requirement for full disclosure of source code.
    What we are seeing with Huawei is just Trump trying to pressurise China into a trade deal which benefits the USA more so than at present.
    You won’t read about this in HM press however.
    Apologies for the multiplicity of rants today,I am feeling democratic!

    Liked by 2 people

    1. From the last I heard, the Trump administration is pulling back a little on this.

      It appears that so many people in the USA would be affected by it that it might be a seriously unpopular move.

      I’ve no doubt that, with Britain desperately needing a trade deal, any trade deal with Trump, together with his visit next month, May will be totally in agreement with him.

      I wonder if she will risk the wrath of the Chinese government, which will be in place long after Trump is a fading orange ember, in order to crawl sufficiently to get him to make an announcement while he is here.

      The Chinese won’t take kindly to being snubbed and the Uk will desperately needs a trade deal with them too, as they make just about everything that ordinary people buy here.

      Like

        1. Very early. I seem to remember some Tory twerp or other receiving the order of the boot recently for dishing classified dirt on Huawei… I notice that his departure has had no noticeable effect on the regime’s overall idiocy and unpleasantness index.

          What a rotten thing to have on one’s headstone: “He will not be missed”.

          Liked by 1 person

  10. Sorry to disagree, and we are usually singing from the same hymn sheet, but Farage deserves nothing less. Compare a MP being stabbed to death by a Brexiteer ( albeit an insane one ) and a delboy suit having to go to the cleaners – (Aaron i need some more expenses money) If only we took a more French approach to protest? Also it has spawned the best ever comment with the milkshake hitting him – “Lactose meets Intolerant”

    Liked by 2 people

    1. LOL. Don’t get me wrong, I thought it was amusing. And it isn’t in any way comparable to Jo Cox’s murder. Milk is sod all, and the suit, well, as you say, Aaron will buy him another 20 suits.

      And I have often admired other nations (notably the French) who take no sh*t from their governments and take to the streets or dump manure or whatever, if the ruling classes get above themselves, compared with Brits of all nationalities who tend to moan and complain and then remember that Coronation Street is on, so they do nothing.

      My points were just that it achieved nothing except giving people a laugh, becasue he’s an incredibly unlikable man, and reducing the amount of coverage that the much more important story to do with him got.

      And I don’t think that actual bodily violence is the answer, however soft milk is. Yeah protest; yes heckle and drown out his speeches, and absolutely call him out on his dubious activities and his laziness.

      But hey, Colin, we can’t agree all the time.

      🙂

      Like

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