This is a sharp reminder that intelligent people do change their minds when incontrovertible facts are presented to them. We need to present these facts as clearly as we can and then be ready to welcome, with open arms, the people that they convert.
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As predicted by some, this morning three Tories crossed the floor of the House of Commons and joined the Labour MPs who, over the last couple of days, have left the Labour Party.
This raises some questions.
Is it a flash in the pan or is it the beginnings of a reshaping of British, or rather, English politics. (There are no Scottish MPs involved and politics in England and Scotland are very different, the one from the other.)
If the independent group grows, as some predict it will, and its numbers overtake the number of SNP members, will it become the third largest group in the Commons, and entitled, in place of the SNP, to a front bench place and automatic questions at PMQs?
And should that happen (which it may well not) what should the SNP’s response be?
And, do Munguinites think that it should be compulsory for members who were elected under the banner of a party and that party’s manifesto, to stand down if they leave that party regardless of which parliament and which party?
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Thank goodness they voted Tory. Because, if this is strong and stable, I don’t think I could have withstood weak, wobbly and chaotic. (Note to self, look up the definition of chaotic.)
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Billy the Bigot is in a bit of a snit at the BBC, until recently, seemingly his close and trusted friends.
It seems that the story he gave about being invited on to the BBC’s Question Time shows has been denied most fulsomely by that august British institution’s management. And our Billy Boy isn’t happy about being called out as a liar.
He’s has been going back through his diary and has tweeted: “I sat down and looked up all the Q.T shows I was on and got all the dates and people who were on panel and I’m so tempted to blow the lid on BBC again… 4 times NOT EVEN CLOSE, if BBC want to start I’m ready”.
Oh, the joys to be beheld when besties fall out.
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MUNGUIN'S NEW REPUBLIC 
As someone who worked in the Govan area of Glasgow over twenty years ago, I had reasons to be in the company of Mike Dailly on a number of occasions, so it came as a big shock during the last independence campaign to see him advocating a No vote.
I say that because Mike always had the best interests of the people he represented at heart, often at a cost to himself, and I regarded him as an honest person who would do his best for you, no matter your circumstances.
So I was very pleased to see him join our side, as he will be a great asset in our forthcoming Indy ref 2.
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Yes, Alex.
I’ve never met him, but his reputation for fairness and decency is well known.
I too am glad to welcome him.
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It is?
I remember him trying to smear Rev Stu and others during indyref1.
I remember his BS after Labour lost in 2007.
I remember him as being a thoroughly unpleasant narcissistic wanker if we’re being frank.
I’d trust him as far as I could throw him – he’s an out and out chancer IMHO.
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Aye just checked – he “followed” Skinner & McConnachie (fascists/holocaust deniers/ultra loyalists) amongst other extremely nasty scum on Twatter during indyref1 and after.
Leopards and spots spring to mind….
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In that case, Vestas… if they don’t change spots, then there is no chance of us ever winning our freedom.
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Indeed but in this case we’ll have to agree to disagree.
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Leopards and spots… well, maybe he’s had one of those road to Damascus epiphany things – but only time will tell if it’s genuine or he’s just positioning himself for a plum position in the nouveau regime when it comes. The prognosis for narcissistic wankers is not good, though. Fifth columnist?
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Well you can all read the same as me, go google his stuff in the past & ask yourself :
If Labour was still in power in Glasgow would he be on “our side”?
Make your own minds up.
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Well maybe, Vestas, who knows… But if we don’t accept that people can be convinced by changing circumstances, then we will end up with approximately the same vote as before, so there’s no point in wasting time, effort and money convincing people.
Might as well give up and sing God Save the Queen.
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Tris there are people who were diehard Labour (Eric Joyce for eg) who changed their minds & didn’t feel the need to smear or abuse people on social media, nor did they follow known fascists/ultra loyalists.
Then there are the people like Dailly who were frankly vile on social media but are now on “our side”.
Like I said we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one as nobody will convince me Mike Dailly won’t flip back to Labour unionism when the circumstances are favourable for him.
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Fair enough, Vestas. We can’t agree about everything… 🙂
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The EBC World Service last night had an article on the new grouping.
The expert, can’t remember the name, stated that the 2 party system is under threat.
That THREE tory party members crossing the house was Hugely significant and threatened the government of the COUNTRY.
Strange that NO mention was made of the effect of the SNP group, the LD group or the DUP group or the fact that the SF group don’t attend.
The exceptionalism is alive and well in englandland, no mention of 56 SNP members being returned in the past.
It appears that 3 , still Tory, MPs crossing the house are worth more than the SNP group.
It was an insult to the Scottish people that Ian’s question to the PM was answered by a wally who could only answer with the MANTRA, the only deal is the maybot’s deal. Where were the economic projections, non answer.
This is the reality of westmonster, lies and deceit.
As to the falling out, I see that murdo’s eleven are complaining about EBC bias against their player, isn’t it great when best friends fall out.
We really need out, May would be a great time for the exit.
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Ha ha. May and exit go well together.
Typical BBC. There was a three-party system in England before Nick Clegg lost the Liberal Democrats their place. And of course, it’s fair to say that the Lib-Dems always got far fewer seats than the size of their vote deserved because of the FPTP system which simply doesn’t work in a multi party system.
I’ve always thought that the BBC’s experts need to get out of London a bit.
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I sense that many former No voters are beginning to understand why it is essential to be able to elect and more importantly,sack,the government of your country.
When you are Dependent on people in another country doing this,the results may not be as you would wish.
However,in order to arrive at this position,you have to firstly accept that Scotland is a country and not simpky a region of Greater England.
That is the stumbling block for many Scots.
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I suppose so. But there is no doubt whatsoever that Wales, NI and Scotland get the government that England votes for, whether or not they vote for it. They simply don’t count.
Something like a general election is only for 5 years or however long Mrs May decides it’s for. But this thing with the EU will change all our lives forever.
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Kaos IIRC was the unformed void, the random nothingness before the world.
Hmm … what did come before the Tories, seems like they’ve always been there, but they must have crawled out from some foul fissure somewhere, sometime …
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Adam and Eve, I think…
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I was thinking it was Greek myth ???
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Ah, well the Garden of Eden was supposed to be relatively close to there… that’ll do.
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Compulsory in law that these ex-MPs step down. As politicians seem to lack honour genes then law would be needed.
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Yes, I agree. I saw the one that talks about “tinges” this morning saying that she would not stand down, because it would be a distraction… presumably she meant to her bank balance.
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Report in the National earlier entitled “Ian Blackford warns May: ‘If you don’t act on Brexit, Scotland will’” (http://t1p.de/gxht); May is reported as saying “Being a member of the United Kingdom is worth £1400 every year for each person in Scotland. He talks about damaging the economy; the only people who are going to damage the economy in Scotland are sitting on the SNP benches.”
(1) Does anyone recognize that £1400 figure? I don’t think I remember seeing that before. (2) “the only people who are going to damage the economy in Scotland are sitting on the SNP benches” – she sounds rather sure that they – the SNP, she must mean, and the Scottish Government – are going to be in a position to inflict that “damage”.
We note that May does not mention what it will COST Scotland to stay with the UK, or what the BENEFITS of being out of it and in Europe will be, both of which can be set against that £1400 figure, which may be a figment of May’s imagination anyway. It it’s based on the illusory fiscal black hole, with a the population of 5.25 million, that’s £.7.35 billion – another figure I don’t recognize. If someone out there knows better than me, please let us all know.
Brinkmanship: when Brexit comes down to the wire, and our people at Westminster start raising Cain, will Little England decide to summarily eject us from their precious, precious Union? If the Independence Group, or whatever they’re calling themselves, expands to over 35 MPs, will our SNP be evicted from the corridor formerly occupied by the LibDems, and decide to leave for good? Will Ross Thomson attempt to grope Mr. Kamal el-Hajji, the Serjeant-at-Arms, and be bonked on the bonce for it with the Mace? Is anyone running a pool on which party is going to implode first?
I confess: I can’t find it in myself to care what kind of shambles Westminster gets itself into as long as our people are prepared to walk out if that bloody stupid regime persists with its repellent, reality-denying, anti-Scottish nonsense.
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I don’t recognise any of these figures. They are probably based on GERS, which as we know from leaked memos, was all about telling lies to Scotland to make it look like a basket case, when in fact it was subsidising the UK. Ian Lang, or some such now aristocratic nobleman was responsible.
I’m at the stage where I believe that that awful woman treats Scotland and the SNP with such loathing, that I’d be perfectly happy with Ian gathered his people together and did a Sinn Fein.
It is, in any case, an absolute nonsense to be swearing allegiance to the benefit scrounger in chief, instead of to constituents.
And who knows who Rossy will be touching up next. His ex says he has that kind of inclination, which is why they are ex!
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https://www.gov.scot/publications/deal-brexit-economic-implications-scotland/
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Should we believe that oh, David Davis or Lidington, even Fluffy, or any of those other genii in the Tory Party Cabinet, would condescend to read anything produced by the SNPBAD Scottish Government?
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No
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I think the £1400 is what the Scottish people paid towards London Crossrail, repairs to Westminster, HS2 and other things in England.
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Listened to the most
Bigoted racist rant
I’ve heard in a long time.
Looked at him and said
He was totally wrong.
Shook me head give
Him a hug and walked
Away from me big brother 💖
Brexit has unhinged some
People Labour all his life
Utile a few years ago and
Then went all 🇬🇧 ukip.
Me labour membership has
Lapsed and I am now stateless
As for the snp never never never (Ian Paisley style )
Maybe join the tree hugger
Greens 🥬 I believe in the
Old gods that sort of thing
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An ash I know it stands-
It is named Yggdrasill.
High tree, sprinkled,
With white mud;
There from come the dews-
That fall on the dale!
It stands always green, above-
The source of Urdhr.
There from come the maids,
Much knowing;
Three, their dwelling,
Stands under the tree;
Urdh is named one,
The other Verdhandi,
– They notched wood –
Skuld is the third.
They set up the laws,
They decided on the lives,
Of the children of time.
They promulgate fate.
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Beautiful…
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Sad that Brexit has done this to people, especially families. But good friends too.
And the foul racism it has brought about is just terrifying.
Yeah, the Greens sounds like an option for you.
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I think if people LEAVE the party whose banner they were elected under, there should be a by -election. A bit more tricky though if they have the whip removed (oh err) as they could argue they still wanted to be a member/MP of said party. So unless they have committed a crime that requires them to stand down they arguably could stay.
The SNP should remain as third party with the PMQ rights because the other grouping wasn’t elected as a group. If they try it then SNP should form a grouping with Plaid Cymru to be bigger than the Independent Group. Two independence parties bigger than the Independents…
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Yes, good idea, PP.
The Celtic grouping (obviously excluding the DUP loonies).
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BTW has anyone noticed the “usual suspects” BTL on Wings piling into anyone who agrees with WGDs last column in the National about “no more kicking the can down the road SNP”?
I rarely look BTL there now as its groundhog day every day from the same 5-10 people (who seem to think they’re the site guardians or something – might help if they contributed more than a fiver each for their 8 hours per day posting eh?) but someone else mentioned WGDs article disappeared at a rate of knots from The Nationals front page and the usual suspects on Wings were panning it.
Seems some people in the SNP don’t like being told to keep promises? Or am I reading this wrong….
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Wings used to be my to go-to site, but I’ve noticed the guys from the early days whom I’ve met in person posting less and less now. No doubt there are “other forces” at work.
You could probably write a thesis on the commenters at the Herald, from the lone crackpot to the bigots, from SLAB diehards to the green ink brigade at the SiU. Then the paid ones, political hacks and 77 Brigade.
Then last, but not least, the normal people like us 😉
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Its always interesting to check the posting frequency – many seem to be putting in an 8 hour shift “in the cause”, question being “which cause is that?” 😉
I’ll still cough up some cash for Rev Stu as he keeps pulling the MSM lies apart but again that’s now groundhog day – everyone who isn’t a diehard unionist knows the score, we’re never going to get anywhere that way.
As business flees the “UK”, political parties fragment & we’re 36 days from 20-50% tariffs on food, plans for a cull of 3-5 MILLION sheep are afoot, govt plans for army on the streets, power rationing (will have to be as 8% comes from France/Netherlands), fuel rationing…
When is the “time” Nicola/SNP if not now? After Brexit Holyrood is going to be shut down in all likelihood. What then?
Face it people, a S30 order will never be granted again so we need to get that out of the way ASAP. The only reason it was granted for indyref1 was because the English state thought they couldn’t lose. They know better now.
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I don’t think it will be long now. Certainly not much more than a month away.
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That’s too long.
Whatever happens has to be in progress by the week starting 4 March in order to allow for formal refusals of s30 orders etc prior to 29 March.
Tick tock.
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Conan the Librarian,
Perhaps you should have stuck around here? I am pretty much a pacifist and I think most people that comment here are?
I am not exactly scared of the lunatics that comment on the Herald, they are idiots, one and all.
Whatever they say is fueled by hatred and is not worth the time of day.
IMVHO
douglas clark.
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I am not aware of ever being away.
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Only to go to the pub….
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Kind of an adam and eve moment. Quite fascinating, if honestly told. There is some biblical comment about one sinner coming back to God being worth massively more than one liar. I am not, at all, convinced, by that.
Just saying.
Gods are overrated.
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They assuredly are.
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