WE ALL WANT TO STAY BUT OUR YOUNG WANT TO STAY EVEN MORE

A Survation Poll for the Sunday Post* has shown that among the age group 16-34 (clearly those most affected by Brexit, on the basis they have the longest time to live with it) are nearly 82% Remain.

The 35-54 group are now 66% pro remain, and even in the 55+ group, only 43% of those questioned were pro-Leave.

With a sample size of 880 out of a voting population of  3.9 million, I’m not sure how accurate that might be. If anyone knows, please inform us.

Even at +/- 10%, it would put every group in the Remain camp.

It is ridiculous that Scotland is leaving the EU

Image result for sunday post

(*For non-Scottish readers, the Sunday Post is a largely Tory-supporting Scottish Sunday tabloid newspaper which, at one point, had almost blanket circulation within the country. Circulation in recent years has fallen and is currently around 125,000 per week. It is the home of “Oor Wullie” and “The Broons” and is published by DC Thomson, Dundee.)

Image result for sunday post oor wullie

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42 thoughts on “WE ALL WANT TO STAY BUT OUR YOUNG WANT TO STAY EVEN MORE”

  1. Not just ridiculous, it’s a textbook example of the tyranny of democracy. It’s saying “might makes right”, and then pretending it’s democracy. It’s what happens when the legal protections that stop people riding roughshod over other people are taken away. It’s even easier to do to Scotland because our rights have never been properly set down in black and white by binding treaty anyway.

    It’s all of a piece with the Westminster regime’s plans to strip us of our fundamental human rights under the European Convention on Human Rights. That is just one of the factors informing my conviction that Scotland has to leave the UK before the UK leaves the EU – because afterwards will be no good if the regime is as mad and bad as I think it may very well be, and is already prepared to clamp down on Scottish dissent of all kinds, including nasty little obstacles such as the Holyrood Parliament, which the Tories never accepted anyway because it is an offence to any proper Unionist who believes that the Westminster Parliament is the only, the ultimately, the universally, the omnipotently sovereign government in the whole wide Universe. If you think that’s going a bit over the top there, maybe someone can fill me in on what restrictions on its sovereignty, if any, the Westminster Parliament does accept, apart from the laws of physics, perhaps, or the need not to look too patently absurd and insane.

    I say “get out before 29 March 2019” for any number of reasons. A major one is that leaving ourselves open to having rights and protections stripped away from us by delaying, thereby opening the door to an evilly-disposed regime that would very much like to shut down our democracy with no threat of any legal or constitutional comeback – would be very unwise, a major mistake, an extremely serious piece of negligence.

    Time may be of the essence – the situation is likely to be fluid and fast-moving, the more so the closer we get to the slurry actually hitting the impeller… We’ll have quite enough on our plates already without having to cope with things we could have forestalled but didn’t. I expect that the Scottish Government has already factored the concerns I raise into its thinking, and if they haven’t, at least no one will be able to say that it wasn’t for want of me telling’em.

    Other writers have said that they are not worried about such legalities. Well, good for them. A bit of history, though: after 1745, quite a few of the wealthier Union-supporting, anti-Jacobite Scots had soldiers of the occupying army billeted on them – I remember reading about a court case in which the occupying soldiery (officers and gentlemen, if I recall) had walked off with all the expensive china, silver and other movables of some douce burgher in Aberdeen, who took legal action in a Scottish court for compensation or return. I leave you to guess the result.

    Liked by 5 people

    1. LOL.

      Well, it’s not going to happen now. There just isn’t time to get legislation through, run a campaign, get a result and negotiate our withdrawal.

      For all the people who actually don;t give much of a fig about politics, none of this is going to start biting until there is no food in the shops and troops are on the street guarding consignments of pickled rat.

      And from what I hear that’s not too far away.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. **WARNING** **CASSANDRA FREEMAN STRIKES AGAIN** **RANT, PROPHECY AND GLOOM AND DOOM ALERT** **NO PERSONAL NASTURTIUMS INTENDED**

        I disagree about any “timetable” preventing us – I’ll clarify: it is vital that we get a Yes to independence before 29 March, and that the EU accepts us in principle as a member State.

        In the run-up, there are some milestones yet to be reached before the end of the year, which the FM herself has said we have to wait for – and she is obviously right because she agrees with me. When facing the usual screaming and doing that she’s feart and needs to be replaced and doesn’t really want a referendum anyway, we should never lose sight of the fact – fact! -that her personal preference would for a referendum “yesterday, and failing that, tomorrow”. (I think those are her exact words – as reported – but I can’t be ar*sed to check.) I take that as fact, because she has never given me cause for doubt – and my trust for any politician is not given lightly.

        There remain imponderables: the Westminster regime may fall because of the civil war that continues to rage within the Tory party. Unfortunately, the main opposition party is not so much on its knees but flat on its face because of the civil war etc. within the Labour party.

        Other writers may be complacent about, and fall back on, the legalities of the situation. I am not. We have to be ready for worst-case scenarios. We already know that the Westminster regime has as little respect for law as it thinks it can get away with – and then some. So maybe there’s not enough time if we play by The Rules – but that’s irrelevant because there are no guarantees whatsoever that They will act as if The Rules apply to Them. Indeed, ignoring Rules is absolutely characteristic of authoritarian regimes.

        If – or rather, when – there is civil unrest as a result of the serious problems which a hard (or even blind) Brexit will cause, They will have the perfect opportunity to declare a State of Emergency – and presto, all Rules, all constitutional guarantees – which are flimsy enough already – are gone. Aand They can do exactly as they please. Almost as if They planned it that way.

        In the face of the threat of having all our democratic freedoms extinguished, as Mundell realizes his fantasy that our nation itself was extinguished back in 1707, to say “oh, the timetable doesn’t allow it” as an excuse for not seizing every possible means to resist is worse than pathetic.

        Never believe anyone who says “we can’t” – whatever reason they give. “You can’t” is at the core of the Unionist propaganda message. Let me put it another way, using a WWII metaphor: Chamberlain’s “Peace in Our Time” note was bad enough, but how much worse would have been “Dear Mr. Hitler, we can’t possibly get a declaration of war through the Westminster Parliament in time, so we’ve decided just to surrender and let you take over”? Convert that – less dramatically – into “Of course, They have promised that in seven years we will get back the powers they have temporarily taken away from us, so that’s all fine by us”, and “Of course you can suspend all our civil liberties for as long as you like, because we won’t have time to say “no” to you properly anyway, even if we wanted to”.

        When you face an existential threat, you have only two choices before you. Realistically – I mean, as Realpolitik – we need to be an independent EU State in good standing, with all the alliances and economic backing which that entails, if we are to resist being swallowed up by a regime that is implacably hostile to everything we independentistas – and most Scots – believe in. We will need help from our friends if and when a truly bad Brexit trashes the English economy. There is every chance that it will be worse than the worst predictions.

        I read that Westminster’s / the UK’s public finances are worse than the Gambia’s, worse than Uganda’s, and worse than Kenya’s (https://is.gd/FD4pWX). Blaming everything on Johnny Foreigner and imposing a State of Emergency as a “sad necessity”, because of the conduct of those dastardly Europeans towards plucky little Britain – perfect for covering up and disappearing their gross mismanagement, their peculations and malfeasances, their irresponsibility, their bonkers economics, their incompetence.

        And – by deliberately trashing the English economy – They get to solve Their little immigration “problem” too, because of course (a) many fewer people are going to want to go there if there are no jobs, not enough food, and no liberty; and (b) in a State of Emergency, They can stop people coming in at all if They want to – not enough food to go round, see?

        Liked by 3 people

        1. LOL That is a bit doom laden.

          There’s a bit of me that thinks it just won’t get that bad.

          Something will happen… and yet, what?

          Barnier was told recently to go as far as was reasonable to stop a disastrous Brexit, but becasue Mrs May can’t get her right wing to agree with her left wing, and none of them seem to agree with the Anti-Dinosaur party, it doesn’t much matter what he offers… there’s no deal. What Soubry will accept, Johnson won’t, and Foster won’t accept anything that doesn’t mean us all going back to the Garden of Eden and playing with apples and snakes,

          I’m at the stage where I’m up for more or less anything to leave this UK behind and get out into the world in the 21st century.

          So Bring it on, and one hapless muppet once said.

          Liked by 2 people

          1. From the National just now, in the comments on “Former ambassador to EU criticises May’s ‘bullsh*t’ Brexit plan” (https://is.gd/YICHr6), James Roberts says the following:

            “It’s not stupidity or incompetence, at least on the part of the tax haven billionaires and Oxbridge/ex-public schoolboys who are running the UK and feeling control slipping out of their grip.

            The idea is to create a car crash brexit with massive job losses and food shortages. Their right wing thugs will then mount false flag terrorist attacks, riots, supermarket plundering and whatever else they think they can get away with. This will lead to the declaration of a state of emergency and the shut down of the Scottish, Welsh and NI parliaments, possibly accompanied by martial law. In the national interests, of course.

            During this state of emergency all political groups and sympathisers who the posh boys don’t like will be banned, imprisoned, persecuted or murdered by right wing thugs. See Jo Cox as an example. All media attempting to deviate from the party line will be shut down.

            If you think this is a paranoid fantasy just look at what other right wing regimes in the world get up to when they feel their privileges are being threatened. These people do not care if they are sitting on top of a toxic heap of festering **** so long as they are sitting on top of it and have enough useful idiots to do their bidding.

            I really hope it does not come to anything like this but given the extent of the corruption embedded in the UK and the people running it, I would not be surprised at anything they would get up to to hang on to power. What I have outlined is a tried and tested game plan for hanging onto power in the face of democratic opposition and these people only believe in democracy when it delivers the results they want. Once it stops doing that they try and flush it down the toilet as fast as possible.”

            There’s some loon by the name of Freeman witters on a bit in reply, but it’s all same old, same old, so I wouldn’t bother going and checking – other people made more sensible contributions.

            Liked by 2 people

            1. Can’t say I disagree with any of the substantive points you’re making.

              Just watched QT and Mike Russell was excellent as usual. Got sidetracked a bit on Education and Drug policy unfortunately, but got support from Keiza Dugdale although she was adamant that she supported the Union. Trying to fix england from Scotland cannot be done; the english need to fix england.
              Lets hope Nicola #UniteTheClans before much longer. Still banking on Xmas, though odds are getting longer.

              Northern Ireland
              I see the EU/UK are considering using Dublin port as the customs point for entry to Northern Ireland.

              Liked by 2 people

                1. There’s very few things that would work, but Arlene don’t like’em – so Dead On Arrival.

                  What a relief that Arlene represents only the minority in Norlin Airlann and that most people there (if the polls are correct) would vote to reunify with the South rather than have Brexit! Oh, sorry, I meant to say “only a minority believe in the theory of evolution and are not dinosaur-denying, young-Earth-creationist, religious bigots who don’t believe gay people should have equal rights or that women should have control over the most personal decisions in their lives” – cor blimey, otherwise we’d have to think most Nornirish people were stark, staring bonkers!

                  A bit like Scotland, really.

                  Liked by 1 person

                  1. I just heard some bloke from the DUP on about how vile and divisive the EU is being… Everything is their fault.

                    Not a mention of the proud boast of the card holding and cake eating Brits.

                    No Sir, it is all Europe’s fault, including, I have no doubt, Ireland.

                    They seriously are flesh creep inducing dicks.

                    Like

            2. It all sounds frightening and to someone who has never lived through any kind of unrest, rather improbable…

              But who knows. We are entering unknown territory.

              I’m sure Mr Freeman added interesting stuff. He’s known to Munguin, y’know!

              Liked by 1 person

              1. Ackshly, that’s a very interesting point you made, Tris, about not living through any kind of unrest – because my life experience has led to first studying it, then experience the threat it – nothing serious, though.

                My beloved Polish uncle – my father’s sister’s husband – had fought in and survived WWII, and lost all his extended family to the camps. (With the exception of one cousin, a dentist in Kraków, who survived, but was not permitted to join my auntie and uncle in the UK after the war, and disappeared not long after that – ’48 or ’49, I think – as Stalinism / communism took root. So, between Hitler, Stalin and the Home Office, They got’em all.)

                The Polish professor I stayed with in December / January 1972/3 taught in Łódź (for the benefit of those wot don’t speak Polski, it’s pronounce “Wooj” (approximately)), but had been a kid during the war, in Warsaw, and had helped get food from the Resistance through to the Warsaw Ghetto by crawling through the sewers – because he was small enough. And yes, I know, it doesn’t bear thinking about.

                Another wee story from that time – my stepmother’s eldest brother was actually born not long after Poland was invaded, so by 1944/45 he was four or five, something like that. So… what with picking up the rumours from the grapevine and listening to the forbidden BBC, the adults around him had realized that Hitler was definitely losing (and of course they were worrying about what the Russians would do to them when they got there). So tiny tot goes off into the street unbeknownst, and strides up and down doing the jackboot walk and the Sieg Heil salute, shouting “Hitler kaput!” “Hitler kaput!” at the top of his voice. He got away with it, but you can only imagine the consternation among the adults in the family. It’s worth recalling that Poland lost about 1 in 3 of its population during WWII.

                Later, I studied Russian – all my schoolmates were doing French and German, and I’ve always been a bit do-different. Went on to university and got my degree in Russian and French, plus European history and linguistics and other bibs and bobs – and of course, the Russian revolution(s) figured largely in that. I knew quite a few Russians, of course, almost all of them dissident émigrés who’d either managed to get out or managed to get themselves kicked out of the old Sov Union, so I learned quite a lot of the oral history that had been handed down to them.

                One story that sticks in my mind was from a woman who had been nine or ten, I think it was, in 1953, when Stalin died, and after it was announced, the kids had to go to school wearing black armbands as a sign of officially mandated mourning . She remembered remembered her own mother making up a black armband for her, laughing with joy and crying with relief and grief all at the same time, saying “You mustn’t laugh, you mustn’t laugh, you mustn’t laugh” to her daughter. She didn’t understand her mother’s reaction at the tie, of course. She – the woman I knew – had never met her father; he’d been captured by the Nazis (they thought) and after the war had been disappeared into the Gulag. That was the best they could work out from the official prevarications, but they never knew for sure.

                It was said among dissidents that Stalin killed more Russians than the total number of people Hitler killed in total.

                Stupid people used to look at me askance when they asked me what I did and say “You speak Russian? What are you, some kind of Commie sympathizer?”

                In Kenya, the official advice was to try to keep about three months’ worth of basic food supplies in store, just in case of unrest. The situation after Daniel Arap Moi was very tense when I arrived in Nairobi in – ooft – 2001 or early 2002. Here’s a few lines from the Wikipedia article about Moi (https://is.gd/PxHX9f): “Western allies deliberately overlooked the increasing degree of political repression, including the use of torture at the infamous Nyayo House torture chambers. Some of the evidence of these torture cells was eventually to be exposed in 2003 after Mwai Kibaki became President.”

                I remember sitting a few yards away from Mwai Kibaki when he was addressing a UN-related gathering at the UN campus at Gigiri, which is an outer suburb of Nairobi – I was doing the records of the meeting, which was one of my functions there – shortly after he came to power; one rhetorical touch that I particularly remember is him saying “Kenyans can at last … [LONG pause, hold breath] … Breathe. And everyone else in the room breathed out at the same time along with him. Very effective!

                Nyayo House is a prominent building that people pass every time they drive along the Uhuru Highway, the main road through the city (https://is.gd/Ho0wHs), right opposite Freedom Corner (Uhuru Highway, Freedom Corner; under Moi – supreme irony). Here’s what it looks like: https://is.gd/Ho0wHs.

                Note for language wonks: “Freedom” is “uhuru” in Swahili, as most people who’ve watched the original Start Trek know, I think; what they may not know is that it encompasses the ideas of liberation, independence and autonomy as well – also more abstruse meanings such as the “freedom” in “degrees of freedom” (mechanics), and permission or latitude (e.g., freedom of choice, freedom of action). “Huru” means free, independent, autonomous, and so forth.

                Further note for language wonks: that “u” at the start of “uhuru” means that it’s an abstract noun; the first other examples that spring to my mind are “rafiki” = “friend”; “urafiki” = “friendship”; “moja” = one, “umoja” = unity; “tatu” = three, “utatu” = trinity.)

                The closest I came to being affected personally was actually after I had left Kenya because of ill health; there was a lot of trouble in December 2007 / January 2008 after the elections – here’s a description from Wikipedia: https://is.gd/97xFho. My foster-son Sam was injured, very painfully though not seriously, when he got caught up in a riot: he had his back stamped on, vertebrae cracked, and got a pretty thorough kicking. Sam is (quite visibly) a Luo – and the place where he was living in Nairobi (NOT a slum) was burned to the ground. The unrest affected me only inasmuch as I had left some stuff with him, including some quite important and irreplaceable documents, so that all went too. At that point I thought I would be coming back, you see. Sam didn’t actually tell me he’d been injured until well after it was all over… probably a good thing, because I would have done my nut.

                Other occasions: after the verdict in the Rodney King case (white police officers acquitted – as usual – after the particularly brutal beating of an unarmed black guy,even though a passer-by got damning proof of it on video). There were riots in Los Angeles and other places as a result, and white people who had somewhere else to go to, including some of my colleagues at the UN, clogged the roads out of New York in fear of rioting erupting there too. That was a very tense time. I remember my own outrage at the verdict – how could they possibly have acquitted those guys? Naked racism… here’s a story about it from Time magazine: https://is.gd/3LzeJP.

                If you’ve got this far, thank you for reading it, and thank you to Mr. Munguin and his humble servant Tris for not banning me from hijacking this blog for my own selfish ends. I just had an urge to pass on some of my memories before I inevitably pop my clogs. Better before than after, I always say. I won’t dignify it by calling it “a quest for immortality”, because even I am not quite so vain.

                Liked by 3 people

  2. That the problem the free market loons and the old
    Loons who want to live in
    Yesteryear in their last few
    Remaining days(not few enough )

    So the young suffer for the misplaced whims of old hits
    And maniacs.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. It bothers me that our kids won’t have the same opportunities as we did and they will be left behind in an ever smaller world. And largely, I think, because of prejudices stirred by the Daily Express.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. That’s why this kid left many moons ago. Too many scots unable to see the wood for the trees. Kept poor so we would vote labour in the hope of something better happening. Never going to work unless we take the initiative.

        Liked by 2 people

  3. Brexit in itself is sufficient reason for independence but if this doesn’t demonstrate to a majority of Scots the absolute necessity of having a government which is democratically accountable to the electorate,then nothing will.
    Of course,firstly you have to accept that Scotland is a country like any other,including England.
    This is where Proud Scots have to perform mental gymnastics in support of their schizophrenic attitudes towards Scotland’s identity.
    The main purpose of the “union” was to allow England to establish a global empire.
    That purpose,despite recent attempts by the right wing Tories to re-establish it,has long since gone but unfortunately too many Scots cannot see this and continue to cling to the so called union as being the norm.
    It isn’t.

    Liked by 2 people

  4. Who was it who said that Scotland would never take its rightful place among nations until the last Church of Scotland minister had been beaten to death with the last copy of the Sunday Post ?

    A D C Thomson journalist flatmate many years ago defined the Sunday Post’s target audience as « the sowels and the buddies » (as in auld buddies not people from Paisley). But it did play a big part in our lives once and indeed I identify one of the key moments in growing up being when I realised Oor Wullie was a wee laddie.

    Will stop before this turns into an All Our Yesterday post.

    Liked by 3 people

  5. I have no conviction about this but apparently [n = 4pq over L squared]. Which can be resolved for accuracy, given a larger size or summat. In general terms the larger the sample the more accurate the result. However there is an economic cost for that accuracy, and polling companies do not usually find increased accuracy a payable deal.

    This is OK, we have forecasts that are at least a tad true. What we do not know is whether they have been skewed or not. It is pretty obvious that land-line telephone opinion polls would be biased towards your older voter. For instance.

    Some polls go to a ridiculous length to achieve neutrality, others do not

    This is a minefield!

    Liked by 2 people

    1. I have only been polled once in my lifetime,so far.
      I took part in a telephone poll, on a landline, a long time ago. 1985 or so.
      After agreeing to answer the questions posed i was concerned about the way the questions were formed and where they were leading.
      As a result i hung up on the call after telling the pollster why I was about to terminate the call.
      You see I was aware that the last few questions were leading me to confirm their biased position, ie the result they wanted.
      My last answer was I would not give a response as if I did the answer would not be my opinion but theirs.
      I was reminded of the insurance company play for business, You would not let 10 pence a day stand in the way of giving your offspring a wee gift from your estate.
      The bookies and the insurance Co’s set the odds, they win.
      We all know polls are commissioned by the person wanting a certain result, the person who’s paying calls the tune.
      You’ll have had your democracy.
      The maybot’s party got a THIRD of the vote, she nearly won on her own!!!!!, the TWO THIRDS that voted for someone else LOST.

      Liked by 2 people

  6. Well you know my views – independence won’t be achieved by purely democratic means anymore, especially after Brexit day.

    England cannot afford to relinquish power over Scotland once they’re out of the EU. What does England have which the rest of the world wants to buy apart from money laundering and tax evasion?

    Given the reticence of the SNP to actually say anything of substance re indyref2 it looks like all the kids will be leaving (like I did) again, but probably across the pond rather than the EU.

    Plus ca change….

    Liked by 2 people

  7. I agree that all the available evidence both historical and more recent, strongly suggests that purely democratic means will not be enough for us to gain our independence. Westminster is not going to give us up easily. They need our oil to borrow against and our resources to maintain their society. Their major problem is that in lying to Scotland regarding our lack of viability as a nation, they’ve had to sell the same lie to the English people who have embraced it wholeheartedly over a number of generations. That’s where the English publics ambivalence or even derisive attitude toward us comes from. Joe (Little England) Public is convinced that we’re reliant on their good graces and generosity, that we’re subsidy junkies etc.. This means that keeping a hold of us without exposing their long standing lie given our current rebellious disposition will require some skullduggery. England admitting that it actually needs Scotland doesn’t fit in at all with Empire 2.0.

    I’m sorry to say though that its became a wee bit vexatious for me that the folk on Indy blogs talking the most freely about civil unrest are the ones not actually living here. So please if you don’t mind, I’d politely and respectfully ask you to reign it in guys. You’re absolutely entitled to your opinion of course but your not going to be living here when or if it happens so please give it a rest.

    Anybody with an ounce of common (and that’s most of us I think) knows its more than a possibility anyway so there’s no need to continually spell it out.

    Que sera sera and all that.

    Liked by 3 people

  8. Enough of this turgid nay-saying, ye unpatriotic wretches! Instead, rejoice on this most auspicious of days when our radiant Princess Eugenie has wed her Prince Charmless and in the august company of such stalwart and admirable great and good of our Noble British state – such as Robbie Williams, Pixie Geldof, Alan Carr and a veritable constellation of others. Gad, we but lacked Arthur and Lancelot to have had a new Round Table! I say these pills go down a treat with the celebratory English Sham-paign. Rule Britannia, what?

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Lordie, what a bunch of butt licking sycophants.

      Some of these people used to be quite famous didn’t they. A bit F list now though.

      But then she’s a Z list woman… and a lazy one at that.

      Like

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