Oh dear, oh dear… What was it they said?

ashipyardsaaship

Pooling and sharing with the broad shoulders of the UK and in the sure and certain knowledge…

A!!

… that, within Britain, we should also be safe in the arms of Europe, instead of being cast out… adrift and rudderless and in a mess…

Oh well…<sigh>…I’m sure Mrs May knows what she is doing.

60 thoughts on “Oh dear, oh dear… What was it they said?”

  1. Of course she does! How could she not? She’s in charge of the real parliament for grown-ups, not that wee pretendy place down the foot of the Cowgate somewhere! How very dare anyone imply that she doesn’t have a clue what she’s up to or on about!

    By the way, there’s a nice little bridge in New York that I’d like to sell you – its current owners are the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus, and they need to sell so they can pay the elves an English living wage, to build frigates or something, apparently. It’ll only take a few of Mr. Munguin’s millions, and I’m sure he’d just love to give back to the community in return for a sure-fire investor opportunity!

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  2. No sympathy at all. Their unionist “union” leaders lied time & again and their sheep (members) believed them. They also had no problem shouting their lies all over the MSM when given the chance.

    Vote unionist, get shafted. Couldn’t happen to a more deserving lot than the warmongering GMB/Unite union members….

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    1. Although Vestas, I’ve seen a lot of tweets from ex-members who said that they didn’t agree with the stance taken by the union, and that union members were never consulted.

      So certainly not all union members.

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  3. See Nicola is screeching Betrayal good snp word
    Much used by the nats warms the cockles of thier
    Hearts .
    Still seeing as the snp are pacifists why on earth or
    Scotland do they want to produce weapons of war
    Bit contradictory there .

    Unionist lies nationalist lies Tory lies
    Labour lies snp lies all lies lies lies
    But the biggest lie of all is
    The Scottish people want to create
    A nation Independent of the United Kingdom

    Results Votes % Yes 1,617,98944.70% No 2,001,92655.30% Valid votes 3,619,91599.91% Invalid or blank votes 3,4290.09% Total votes 3,623,344 100.00% Registered voters/turnout 4,283,39284.59%

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    1. Well, I can’t speak for all, but I don;t waqnt to be making war ships. I don;t want to be paying for war ships, and I don;t want out people killed in them fighting wars we will never win, so that Britain can say it punched above its weight, Sir, Yes Sir, Mr President.

      That said, just like the tax offices and the passport office and a whole great pile of other stuff, it really isn’t like Mr Cameron (and to a lesser extent, Mr Miliband) promised.

      The workers on Clydeside were promised 13 frigates, IF SCOTLAND WAS IN YOUR UNION. Not getting it, are they?

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  4. I see on another independence website you are described as having, ” a small readership”. Well, I don’t know the figures, but your contribution is invaluable. Please carry on, with not only articles such as todays, but your delightful photographs on Sundays.

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    1. LOL LOL…

      First of all, thanks for your kind words. Much appreciated 🙂

      I’m intrigued though, what independence web site was that? I’d like to know how they know what the readership is.

      Maybe it is small. I’ve never looked at the statistics, so I don’t know. 🙂 I just write and post stuff that amuses me, and then chat in the comments section with readers.

      I’m not doing it to make money or gain kudos, or really anything else… just for fun.

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      1. if MR is small it should be remembered that small is beautiful. No I’ve no idea what website it was.
        Anyway I’m a BIG fan of your SMALL website! And all but one of the readers!

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  5. Tris
    I posted a wee tweet to STV news and included Johann reminding them of that very thing, you can imagine the response I got, yeah zero. I am waiting to see what their trades Unions say, they will blame uncertainty over indy2 and too many will fall for that shit.

    Bruce

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    1. LOL it’s funny that there would be any problems of uncertainly over Indy 2 when we have the cliff edge of Brexit in front of us, don’t you think?

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  6. Ruth D in Independent today claiming that Britain may never recover from the Brexit hit. Before the referendum, Brexit was to be a disaster for Scotland, after the referendum it became a great opportunity for Scotland, now the UK may never recover from Brexit. This show may run and run.

    Note also in yesterday’s edition one of the Scotsman letters column’s arch – yoons welcoming the Queensferry Crossing as something to bring people together rather than drive them apart, which has a lovely irony given that the Britnat parties all voted against its construction.

    Still trying to work out how Groucho would have justified both of these Damascene conversions. (Perhaps the wrong adjective since of course Paul only saw the light once.)

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    1. Yes, her “flexibility” knows no bounds.

      I wonder if that means Muddle feels the same way. (Has anyone seen him over the summer?)

      What is incredible is that she thinks Britian may never recover, but she demands that Scotland stay part of it, so that it can never recover either.

      What an odd aspiration for a Scottish politician… but then, today Scotland, tomorrow, leader of the Tories???

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  7. Someone suggested that a follow up meeting between the shipyard workers and Johann Lamont and Mags Curran would be an interesting event. I’d pay good money to see that on pay-per-view.

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    1. LOL. It would be worth the tv licence fee.

      Must be sickening for the Labour lot to have to face up to the fact that the Tories walked all over them.

      I’d have them talk to Sarwar and Murphy and Brown too.

      And the Noble Lord Darling.

      Patsies, all of them…

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      1. I reserve special ire for the fragrant Alistair, Baron Darling of Roulanish, Class Warrior by Appointment to Her Majesty… my researches tell me that “Roulanish” is the same thing as Breacleit on Bernera, up Lewis way, and I have no idea what His Lordship has to do with it, but I expect they’re black ashamed of him anyway up there.

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          1. The house (and croft) on Lewis belonged to his grandmother (IIRC).

            He’s not Mr Popular up there which is surprising as the majority of folk up there are still forelock tugging idiots (I come from there) who go weak at the knees when presented with a “Sir”, never mind anything else 😦

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            1. Ah, Vestas, I knew we paid for some decorations or improvements to it when he was supposed to be in charge of the nation’s finances. If memory serves me, wasn’t he the one who claimed for two places in one year, and then WE had to pay for an accountant to sort out his tax… and him the chancellor?

              For heaven’s sake. Glad he was never my advocate.

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  8. Many No voters during our referenfum were looking for reasons to support their position and this was just one of many lies they latched on to.
    The democratic deficit argument could not be countered by the unionists so they,aided and abetted by HM press,decided to hang their hat on money and jobs.
    Absolutely guaranteed that during the next referendum,the arguments from the unionists will be about the UK single market blah blah blah which will be swallowed hook line and sinker by those who suffer from the cringe.
    No one is surprised at the latest announcement,only how long it has taken.

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    1. We need to have our facts at the ready then. How much of our “trade” with england/wales goes to docks to be shipped abroad, EU and elsewhere. How much trade with england/wales is in energy products /services they are still likely to need from Scotland.
      We are a resource rich country, we need to push this as Brexit approaches.

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        1. I seem to remember Wings saying that the Republic of Ireland, with 4% of the world market in whisk(e)y, earns £4 billion a year from it, whereas Scotland (80% of the world market) earns £2.5 billion… even if I got that the wrong way round, it wouldn’t make any sense. It’s like our oil revenues compared to Norway’s – they continued with a healthy income stream from their oil and gas even when the bottom fell out of the market, and ours vanished almost completely.

          Just another of those many things that make no sense whatsoever when you actually look at them.

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          1. I’m not sure why the whiskey/ey figures are so different, but I understand that Norway charges the oil companies money to take their oil whereas Britain pays them to take the oil.. or something along those lines.

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        2. Export information for Scotland is not available. It is, however, available for all independent countries. And we can use that to look at exports from selected countries to their neighbours.

          12% of Ireland’s exports go to the UK (including Scotland)
          http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/irl/#Destinations

          7.6% of Norway’s exports go to Sweden, and 17% to the UK (incl. Scotland).
          http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/nor/#Destinations

          14% of Denmark’s exports go to Germany.
          http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/dnk/#Destinations

          According to the UK Government 60% of Scotland’s exports go to England. I would say the evidence from other country pairs suggest that is laughable. True exports from Scotland to England are likely in the 15% range. The rest just passes through to the export ports, the Channel Tunnel and Heathrow.

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          1. Yes, I agree. I think it has pretty well been shown that exports are counted at the port of exit.

            As your research shows it is unlikely that we sell MUCH more to England that Norway/Sweden for example.

            It’s just another one of the lies.

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    2. Bringiton: Of course it took less time than the tax offices and the passport offices that they promised to close if we left (obviously, although they would probably have been replaced by Scottish government offices) and then closed anyway; it took longer than the EU promise, but they have been slowly breaking the promise for a while. It was originally 13 frigates.

      Mind you, given that this is in the hands of Mr Fallon, it is possible he’s just been too…erm… “tired and emotional” to get on with it.

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  9. I see that Harland and Wolff in Belfast are hoping to get in on the act.

    Now call me an old cynic and I’m definitely not casting aspersions on the fairness of any tendering process for the new Frigates, but……..

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    1. Well, I’d love to hear BBC (lol lol lol) go and ask them what they think of the way Scotland has been treated.

      They promised 13 frigates. What do you say Margaret? Johann? Your mates in Better Together? Your partners in your union?

      Liars and cheats.

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  12. O/t

    I don’t know if people have seen on twitter but it appears something really horrible has happened to @
    defiaye and also appears that she’s been bullied online for months. Banter is one thing, disagreement is another but I urge people to be respectful of difference and behave responsibly.

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    1. OMG.

      This is awful.

      Horrible…

      My thoughts are truly with her.

      I agree… and we’ll always be like that on this blog.

      We don;t have many disagreements (except maybe Niko, but that’s all done light heatedly and with love).

      There has been the odd unpleasant comment, but I nip them in the bud.

      Let’s all hope she pulls through this.

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            1. Impotent rage.
              I’ve never been bothered by these keyboard warriors; one, they will never get up off their collective arse to actually do anything unless they’re mob handed – re George Square.
              Two, if they ever turned up outside my house they wouldn’t like the welcome…

              Yet I’m not a lone and obviously vulnerable female, just the kind of prey these scum delight in harrying. Mind you, if they cannae even get the location someone’s elderly parents right, they are also incompetent scum.

              Panda Paws, if you know this lady please forward our good wishes to her and hers, I think I can speak for everyone who posts on here in this.

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              1. I reckon you can too, Conan.

                I doubt there are Munguin readers who don;t condemn this behaviour, and who wouldn’t do exactly the same if it were the other way round and Scots were doing it to the Brits.

                PP: Thanks for updating us.

                I woke up this morning thinking about her and we’d appreciate any more updates as they come along.

                Thanks for that article. I hope the police nip this in the bed. Letting it start and be “OK” is the road to nowhere!

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                1. These people are cowards and bullies, waging psychological warfare from the shadows.

                  The scum of the earth regardless of which side they’re on. If there are any on our side and I haven’t come across any so far although I suspect they must exist, then they need to stop. Their services are not required.

                  The vast majority of them do seem to be yoons though, which helps to illustrate that British Nationalism is a right wing fascist movement.

                  It kinda feels like we’re entering a new phase.

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                  1. I’m sure they exist on both sides, although the press would have us believe they are Cybernats alone.

                    They should stay well away from Munguin and his republic…whatever side they are on.

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  13. tris

    Thought you and the other lot might want to read this

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/all-the-worst-lies-about-brexit-are-about-to-be-revealed/2017/09/08/4bf9d43a-9410-11e7-8754-d478688d23b4_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-c%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.63257ba594ee

    LONDON

    It is a rare opportunity. Seldom does the voting public have the chance to watch their elected politicians confront very specific false promises in real time. Usually campaign promises are either too vague to be contrasted with reality (“Make America Great Again”) or too long term. By the time that “guaranteed growth” either arrives or doesn’t, the person who said it would happen is long out of office.

    But in Britain right now, something different is unfolding. During the referendum last year, politicians advocating their country’s departure from the European Union gave some specific assurances. Some derived from ignorance; as it turned out, few of them really understood how the E.U. works. Others were lies, which they knew to be lies at the time.

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    1. Thanks Niko.

      The deal with referenda is that the losing side never has to prove that it would have done anything that it promised. From day 1 none of that matters.

      However, the winning side does need to deliver. And if your case was built on utter lies, that’s going to be hard.

      As the article says, they didn’t really think they would win, so they talked utter nonsense (Fox is still talking nonsense, but then he lives in another world).

      Truth is it will not be better; we will not have more money for the NHS or anything else; there won;t be beneficial trade deals all over the place; we just can’t send all the foreigners home becasue we don;t have enough people, never mind enough skilled people, to do all the jobs they do.

      It’s the same with the Scottish referendum. I’ve no doubt that both sides lied, but the winning side has to live up to its promises. The losing side are history.

      So, where are the tax office, the ships, the EU membership?

      As the article says, usually these thinhgs can be fudged over a period of time, but in this case the EU has set a time limit of 2 years (18 months really).

      Things could turn nasty if they try to do any U-turns. But by the same token, an NHS that was promised £350 million a week (that’s over £18 billion a year), and finds instead that it has been taken over by an American insurance company, is not going to be a happy organisation.

      Thanks for sending it. Most interesting. I Tweeted it on.

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  14. Sorry, Tris, but I must take issue with the comment by one of your guests regarding Darling’s house in the Western Isles stating ” … the majority of folks up there are still forelock tugging idiots…”. To class the ‘majority’ of any community as idiots is, to put it mildly, a tad offensive and not worthy of any further comment.

    As far as ‘forelock tugging’ is concerned there is a great deal of difference between that and an innate politeness and reluctance to cause offence. The fact that in the last two General and Scottish Election the Western Isles voted for an MP and MSP whose party is dedicated to self-determination and independence indicates that the ‘majority’ are at the opposite end of the scale to forelock tugging. We are all aware of what parties ‘forelock tuggers’ would vote for and it is certainly not the SNP.

    Finally, it appears, to my surprise, that this ill-judged and unfortunate comment generated three ‘likes’.

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    1. I take your point, John. I hope that Vestas will address it directly. I’m not getting involved as I’ve never been farther than Skye… although I’d really like to. (The trouble is that it’s probably cheaper to have a week in Hong Kong!)

      It’s fair to say that Vestas did say that he was a native of the islands, so not a mainlander having a go.

      Comments welcome…

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  15. When I read the comment about forelock tugging I pretty much interpreted as meaning what political scientists and such refer to as “deference voters”.
    It rekindled in my mind the old debates about working class Tory voters and why they did it, one such theory being that of the deferential voter. Of course, I couldn’t help but recall the comments of Johann Lamont when she gave us an insight into her thinking when she said that “We’re not genetically programmed in Scotland to make political decisions”. Ms Lamont’s words have a similar ring to them as that archytypal deference voter who’d give support to his or her betters, to members of a ruling class, trusting them to more effectively govern.

    If I may, I’d like to link to an article by Richard Seymour. It was written some time ago in 2010 ( doesn’t time fly…), and in it he advances the proposal that it’s no longer about being deferential to an aristocratic elite but about deference to the nation state:

    “But I think we can start to see a trend here for working class Tories in particular: if they are not deferential toward an aristocratic elite, they are deferential toward the national state. The nation-state, which the Tories are by way of vociferating about most stridently, is for them the best defence against trade unions, immigrants, wideboys and spivs, and the best guardian of a stable, cohesive, well kept society.”

    http://www.leninology.co.uk/2010/10/working-class-tory-is-something-to-be.html

    Adieu
    I’m off for a ponder

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    1. I’m off for a read 🙂

      Thanks for the link.

      I often wondered if voting Tory made working class people feel a little more “middle class”. You know, the rest of their family voted Labour, but they thought themselves a bit above all that.

      Maybe because they’d got a promotion sort of thing… You know “The working class can kiss my ass, I’ve got the foreman’s job at last” (sung to the tune of the Red Flag).

      Love of a country… I’m not sure about. I’m pretty inclined to agree with the maxim of Dr Johnson who said: “Patriotism is the last vestige of the scoundrel”.

      Do I love Scotland? I don’t really know. I don’t think about it like that. I live here. I’m chez-moi… very much more at home here than other places. But I don’t miss it when I’m not here.

      I don’t think it’s vastly more beautiful than anywhere else; I don’t think the people are vastly better than other people.

      When it comes to Britain, I pretty much hate it. Would I lay down my life for the Queen and country…? Aye right. It’s they way you tell them.

      Would I ever vote Tory or Labour or indeed Liberal Democrat? Not in a heartbeat.

      I don’t want to be protected from immigrants (some of my best friends are immigrants). The Tories don’t save me from wide boys or spivs. They ARE wide boys and spivs, and after many years of Tory government (and frankly I include Blair and Brown in that) we don’t have a cohesive, well kept society. We have a mess of indecent riches, indecent poverty, inefficient services, both national and within companies, racists, religious nutters, fascists, and Nazis.

      Frankly if someone offered me a good start in Iceland or Denmark, I’d grab it.

      Now I’m off to read the article 🙂

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