a heros
What incredibly brave and awesome people they are.

It’s not the right time to write any more about this tragedy.

There’s a lot of stuff to come out, but today’s not the right day.

That day will come.

It’s worth saying though, that centres open to help people in London include churches, mosques and temples, and folk from all over London have been donating stuff to people who’ve lost everything. There are good people in the world, huh?

The work of firemen, police and medics is beyond words.

We’re thinking about you tonight, you public servants… and the poor bastards who lost their lives, or their health, or their family.

I’m going to stop now. I’m too angry to carry this on.



44 thoughts on “London”

  1. Robert Kennedy quotes Aeschylus

    Even in our sleep, pain which cannot forget
    falls drop by drop upon the heart,
    until, in our own despair,
    against our will,
    comes wisdom
    through the awful grace of God.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Well, I was more or less taking Corbyn’s point of view on it. Maybe he is a dreamy nationalist.

      There’s a lot to be found out yet, but Mrs May’s assistant sat on a report on safety in high rises of several years. Mr Johnson, when questioned about this he told the questioner to piss off.

      I’ve read that the reason the building was clad the way that it was, using at least in part flammable material was that it was visible from some of the better parts of Kensington and Chelsea and it didn’t look nice.

      And despite the Ronan Point disaster of 1966, apparently, they still have gas in these high rise buildings?

      Disasters are nearly always the result of a combination of things that have gone wrong. I suspect that many of them will be attributable to cheese-paring, incompetence or greed.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. Did you notice that there were two blocks in the background that hadn’t, apparently, been cladded?
        What now?


  2. For oor Niko:

    “Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
    And sorry I could not travel both
    And be one traveler, long I stood
    And looked down one as far as I could
    To where it bent in the undergrowth;

    Then took the other, as just as fair,
    And having perhaps the better claim
    Because it was grassy and wanted wear,
    Though as for that the passing there
    Had worn them really about the same,

    And both that morning equally lay
    In leaves no step had trodden black.
    Oh, I kept the first for another day!
    Yet knowing how way leads on to way
    I doubted if I should ever come back.

    I shall be telling this with a sigh
    Somewhere ages and ages hence:
    Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,
    I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference. “

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Replying to trispw, ’cause there is no immediate link to your post of:

      June 15, 2017 at 14:36

      Which is odd.


      I think, ’cause I am a revolutionary dude, that the flats of the eyeballs should be demolished instead.

      This probably comes from a heart felt opinion that Saint Pauls Cathedral is a beautiful building which would be far better represented in a pastoral landscape, rather than the way it is currently encroached by folk that just want to ‘claim the view’. Their ‘claiming of the view’ tends to minimise the view. I’d be quite happy to flatten every one of their monstous carbuncles.


  3. Not to seem flippant about such a serious and tragic matter, I do feel the need to express a preference for Robert Frost over Aeschylus any day. (Niko quotes Robert Kennedy who quoted Aeschylus.) As for Bobby Kennedy, I think I would have liked him when he took up JFK’s torch against the ghastly vulgar warmonger Lyndon Johnson. Notwithstanding the fact that much of the Kennedy legend was public relations flim-flam to cover up overweening dynastic ambition and rampant womanizing.

    Part of the big show was convincing the voters that the Kennedy boys were great intellectuals. So Jack and Bobby could be depended on to put quotes in their speeches from guys like Aeschylus, which would elicit thunderous applause from the middle class honkies who decide American presidential elections, and yet didn’t have a clue about whatever it was that Aeschylus was really saying. It would wow them in Omaha though, and would become a big part of the carefully crafted Kennedy “Camelot” legend that was already solidly in place when Bobby made his ultimately tragic run.


      1. Niko……Under investigation? I think it’s great!

        And thank you Niko for your kindness. Dealing with the orange faced moron in the White House is certainly not easy for anyone here. I was greatly pleased to read in the Washington Post (subsequently confirmed in the New York Times) yesterday and today that Trump IS in fact under criminal investigation by Robert Mueller, the special counsel (effectively a special prosecutor for specific crimes,) for possible obstruction of justice….a major felony. As you may know, this is supremely ironic since one of the reasons he fired FBI director Comey was over the precise issue of whether or not he was personally a target of a criminal investigation. He WASN’T at the time, but IS NOW……BECAUSE of the circumstances of the Comey firing and other allegedly illegal inquiries about the subject of a personal criminal investigation that he made to other high Justice Department and National Security officials.

        I think I heard that after about 24 hours of Twitter silence, he was once again blasting the Post this morning for “fake news” about the subject. That’s always good of course since he pretty much always makes things worse for himself with his Tweets. The moron really is the gift that keeps on giving. (Sadly, it’s looking like he won’t be coming to you for a state visit anytime soon. We had hoped to be rid of him for a few days, but he says he’s not coming until he can be assured that no one will be mean to him. Good luck with THAT!)

        Liked by 2 people

      2. @ dc….well now, I certainly failed in my declaration of non-flippancy. 😉

        LOL……No Republican leanings for sure.

        Just a realization that there are politicians with feet of clay in all parties that people sooner or later find out about. It took a while for inside descriptions of JFK’s carefully crafted image to come out……along with the stories about the countless women not his wife.

        It was easier I imagine for people (including Democrats) in his own time to hate Lyndon Johnson…..the vulgarian from Texas. Although he achieved landmark civil rights legislation that finally ended apartheid in his native South, he then got us into the bottomless quagmire that sent tens of thousands of young men into the Vietnam meat grinder in an era of conscription. THAT set the stage for Richard Nixon. Now what could POSSIBLY have gone wrong with that…..LOL.

        Liked by 3 people

    1. A wise American woman once said that a politician is a fellow who will lay down your life for his country.

      It doesn’t just apply to American politicians of course.

      Liked by 1 person

  4. @ douglasclark……You said: “Replying to trispw, ’cause there is no immediate link to your post of: June 15, 2017 at 14:36. Which is odd.”

    I’ve noticed that. There seems to be no way to figure out when a “Reply” link is or is not provided. Sometimes a “Reply” is provided (always on a newly posted comment I think ,) but often it is not. I always go up to the last comment in the thread that has a “Reply” link, and use that one. Then my reply seems to show up in a reasonable place as the last posting on the thread. Still, it’s sometimes necessary to use a “@ ” to make it clear which particular comment in the thread you are actually replying to.

    Liked by 2 people

      1. dc….YW! Note that my reply to your direct comment to me is in the thread above this one which I sent by clicking on the”Reply” in one of the comments farther up…….I think one of yours or possibly Niko’s.

        Liked by 1 person

  5. See your last reply @ June 15, 2017 at 18:04 ?

    I cannot reply to that directly.

    Nor, more meaningfully, your post @ June 15, 2017 at 17:55.

    Just for the record, I agree with your third paragraph:

    “It took a while for inside descriptions of JFK’s carefully crafted image to come out……along with the stories about the countless women not his wife.”

    Lyndon B Johnson had his good points as well as the bad.

    I just wish we could find politicians that were exclusively good. Or even rational.


    1. @ dc……Neither of those postings… 18:04 and 17:55……have Reply links on my screen either. They are both replies to earlier postings, so to reply to either of them I would normally click “Reply” on the next PREVIOUS posting which has a Reply option. OR, would simply start a new comment at the bottom such as you did at 18:48. The 18:48 message is a new comment unrelated to a previous thread, so it does have a “Reply” on my screen. This message is posted as a reply to 18:48.

      You say: “I just wish we could find politicians that were exclusively good. Or even rational.”

      Oh yes! Wouldn’t that be nice?

      Lyndon Johnson’s presidency is of course conflicted by the Vietnam war. His record of civil rights legislation which abolished racial segregation in the South and secured voting rights for African-Americans in the Southern states would…..all by itself…….put him in the top tier of presidents who did great things.

      But he got bogged down in Vietnam…….in an involvement that began with JFK…….and which was marred by endless Pentagon lies and military ineptitude; and the gross incompetence and deceit of his despicable Defense Secretary Bob McNamara. All of it played out against a background of compulsory military conscription that sent 50,000 American servicemen to their deaths. By 1968, he was the most hated man in America……confronted everywhere with the chant “say hey LBJ, how many kids did you kill today.”

      He realized that even as the incumbent, he probably couldn’t get the presidential nomination of the Democratic Party at the convention in Chicago in 1968. And anyway, he faced a challenge for the Democratic nomination from Bobby Kennedy whom he detested. Bobby entered the presidential primaries that year and was assassinated in Los Angeles on the night he won the California primary. So what the Democratic party big shots did in a back room deal was rig the convention to nominate Johnson’s VP, Hubert Humphrey (who didn’t run in a single primary,) while what would have been the “Kennedy” supporters rioted outside the convention hall in Chicago…..having been denied party credentials to enter the hall. The whole rotten deal and the riots that erupted in the streets of Chicago will forever be remembered as the Democratic party’s “Nightmare in Chicago,” and it assured the victory of Richard Nixon in the 1968 presidential election.

      So for his Civil Rights record, Johnson would be remembered as a truly great president. But for Vietnam, and for his part in the “nightmare in Chicago,” he will always be hated.

      From his standpoint, he couldn’t win in Vietnam, and he couldn’t pull out without national disgrace. He was, he later said, like a man caught out in hail storm on a lonely Texas highway. He couldn’t run, he couldn’t hide, and he couldn’t make it stop.

      Ultimately a tragic tale of a president who secured landmark constitutional rights for black Americans, but was destroyed by the Vietnam War.


      1. Conan….That chant……”LBJ, How many kids did you kill today”…… that apparently greeted LBJ everywhere here in the states must have even crossed the Atlantic. That dreadful summer of rioting and burning in 1968 from young men trying to escape the military draft in the Vietnam war that had gone off the rails, and from African-Americans in the black districts of American cities after the Bobby Kennedy and Martin Luther King assassinations must have seemed like something very near a new American revolution.

        Almost four decades later, in my time, I can remember the hatred for the idiot George W. Bush when HIS American wars ground on endlessly. But that was surely a tiny fraction of what went on during Vietnam, most notably because the military draft no longer existed. (Jimmy Carter, on his first day in office on January 21, 1977, pardoned the Vietnam era draft evaders who failed to register and went into hiding or escaped into Canada.)

        It is ironic that when America decided to remain a military behemoth after WWII as a counterweight to Stalin’s Soviet Union, it did so with the science of nuclear weaponry of course; but as much to the point, maintained its massive troop levels by involuntary servitude (which is to say, “peacetime” conscription,) where the generals in the Pentagon didn’t have to pay prevailing market labor rates for the young soldiers. A prosperous post-WWII middle class (who had gone to war in WWII and probably thought that compulsory national service was “good for” the kids,) placidly accepted that UNTIL Vietnam became a meat grinder. Then all hell broke loose in a country that was shaken to its core.

        Almost 40 years later, George W. Bush’s America and her UK ally quite deliberately commenced new wars to spread democracy at the point of a gun in the Middle East. Even when Americans figured out that they had been lied to by their government as to the wars’ justifications, the hatred for George W. Bush surely didn’t compare with what LBJ experienced. Because there was only about 10% of the Vietnam casualties of course, but more importantly because the military draft no longer existed. The draft had been ended 30 years earlier by Richard Nixon at the end of Vietnam (and on the eve of Watergate,) when he realized from the Vietnam experience that it was no long sustainable. From then on, the American military machine would have to sustain itself at prevailing labor rates.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. People forget that Nixon ended that war., Danny.

          He’s all kinds of bad, because of Watergate (and of course I’m not saying he wasn’t) but it shadows some of his achievements.


      2. Yes Tris…..Nixon was also responsible for the beginning of normalization of relations with China in 1972. This finally brought some reality to American foreign policy in Asia, after the long period of enmity which followed the post-WWII Communist hysteria, and the war with China after they came into the Korean conflict.


  6. I see that tomorrow’s Daily Mail asks “Were green targets to blame for fire tragedy?” I thought I’d seen the gutter press plumb the depths but surely this is a new low. I’m no slouch when it comes to insults couched in what’s sometimes referred to as expletives but I have to say I’m speechless this time but only because I can’t think of words foul and corrosive enough to describe the utter bastards who write and publish this sort of free-flow shite. Never mind the corruption, cost-cutting, carelessness, disregard for safety – it’s obvious it must be these environmentalist tree-huggers that caused this building to burn like a firelighter and incinerate so many poor (aye, there’s the operative word) folk in their homes. The next thing they’ll be claiming the Hillsborough shambles was caused by the Human Rights Act. The contempt I feel for these “journalists” is immeasurable.

    Liked by 4 people

    1. I agree, we’ve had austerity imposed for years upon already beleaguered councils and then it’s supporters start to whine when folk die as a result of consequent cost cutting. So now the frantic search for a suitable patsy begins to divert attention from the real culprits. Immeasurable contempt pretty much sums it up.

      The re-writing of the facts to suit a right wing agenda or just plain lying to you and me is endemic across the media. I’ve just been watching the current episode of This Week where Giles (Interesting) Brandreth has told us that up in Scotland Ruth Davidsons conservatives triumphed. John Nicholson when asked about the political landscape in Scotland said we lost a lot of seats while crediting Davidson for the result but failing to mention the 35 out of 59 the SNP held on to. A victory for us I would have thought, but no, obviously not.

      Now I’m the first to admit that Buffalo Tank Walloper did well but ‘triumphed’ that means winning the election doesn’t it? And then Nicholson witerring on about the council elections being about the constitution and not bin collections like they should have been. It was all a bit obtuse and disheartening for me personally and I want the SNP to start doing better in these situations. Maybe he was just the victim of biased editing, I’ll probably never know.

      I really need to stop watching these programmes or I’m going to start bursting blood vessels or develop some other horrible fury induced medical condition. At least I won’t have to go to the English NHS.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. @ Greig12: I’ve stopped watching all this stuff. That way I’ll live long, even if I don;t prosper.

        If they want to think they have won, the Tories with their 13 seats, then I say good luck to them.

        They are right about the state of Scottish education, if they think that 13 seats out of 59 is a win.

        There’s a bit of me that would like to see the Ruth Davidson party try to run Scotland.

        Imagine someone like Jackson Hic Carlaw, or Murdo Fraser actually trying to run something, instead of carping.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Yeh your right Tris. I suppose I was trying to know my enemy, hear the other sides point of view maybe. I think I probably know them well enough now so I’m going to stop watching their pish. It’s still very worrying though and I really can’t see how there ain’t going to be trouble ahead. You can fool some of the people all of the time etc…

        Liked by 1 person

        1. I think there will be real trouble.

          If I were Corbyn, I’d not want the poison chalice of trying to deal with Brexit. It’s doomed to complete failure whichever way it plays out.

          Already things are getting harder. Inflation starting to soar; wages falling; incompetent government coming to bite them.

          And that’s before they have discovered that they can’t have their European cake and eat it.

          Just wait for some of the beauties that are coming their/our way.

          You know, they say all political careers end in failure… the thing is that they usually have some sort of honeymoon, followed by a decline.

          Then there’s Theresa.

          Liked by 1 person

    2. The slimy guardian of the Tory party. Along with the Telegraph and the Express they are rightly ridiculed all over the world. Remember when only the Sun got this kind of obloquy? Thank fuck for the internet.

      Liked by 2 people

    3. I agree, Andimac.

      Unbelievable. Dacre is probably May’s only friend. He must have decided to help her out.

      It’s not the greed; it’s not the neglect; it’s the Green Party.

      And the Daily Mail can convince the muppets.

      You’re right. I can think of a few words for them. But I couldnt use any of them on here.


  7. I used to think that Theresa May was just useless at whatever job she did, Home Secretary, Prime Minister, and I believe that view was bourn out by her decision to call an entirely unnecessary General Election, a decision based on an opinion poll showing the Tories well ahead of Labour, and an ideal opportunity for her to seize unlimited power for years to come.
    Of course that came spectacularly unstuck, due both her inability to talk to real people, and her Tory party policies which were “designed” to hurt the very people on whom she was depending to vote for her.
    Then, having no shame, she is trying to enter a Faustian pact with a political party whose close relationships with organisations are distinctly dubious. All designed to keep a thoroughly discredited Prime Minister, and her party, in power. No matter what may be the cost to the delicate balance of the Good Friday Agreement.
    And now with the tragedy of Grenfell Tower, she again displays her inability to connect with real people. No meeting, no words of consolation for either the survivors, or the relatives who have lost their lives, or indeed those who are going through agonies of not knowing whether their loved ones have perished. It beggars the question whether this unfeeling woman has one decent bone in the whole of her body.
    And now the Tory leader of Kensington and Chelsea Borough Council gas suggested that the residents themselves were, by implication, to blame for the blaze, because they couldn’t agree on whether a sprinkler system should be fitted.
    Just when I think this despicable excuse for a political party couldn’t sink any lower, they prove me wrong.
    And to all Tory voters in Scotland. Is this what you voted for? Are you proud of yourselves this morning? Have you no decency, or is power all that matters to you, no matter how that is obtained, and at what cost?

    Liked by 3 people

    1. @ Alex. I couldn’t agree more.

      May has surely never succeeded at anything, but she just won’t give up.

      Her ineptitude in dealing with people is only highlighted by the polar opposite in both Corbyn and Sturgeon.


      1. Nobody needs to do any “research”. Exactly the same cladding was used in Melbourne and the fire there spread (IIRC) 13 stories in 11 MINUTES!

        The builders, maintenance company and the council ALL knew the cladding was a major fire risk. They couldn’t possibly NOT have known as they’d all been told it was a fire risk by the BCO. They chose to do it anyway, beacuse what Tory gives a fuck about the poor, especially if they’re Muslim.

        The difference in cost (AFAICT) between the FR (mineral wool) and PE (inflammable polyethylene) is minimal, certainly under 20% more expensive.

        There is going to have to be people sent to prison for decades for this. The law on corporate responsibility is going to have to change too – no more of this “controlling mind” legal bullshit that we have in the UK, if you’re the CEO then you’re going to jail. You get paid ridiculous sums to run the company so you’re DIRECTLY responsible when people die due to your “management”.

        Tory bastards.

        Liked by 3 people

        1. Yes, apparently to have used a fire retardant tile would have cost so little more that it would have made no REAL difference to the overall cost.

          But as you say, it’s not like anyone they think of as being important would ever be living there.

          I bet they aren’t using that shit on Buckingham Palace.


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