KNOW YOUR PLACE, SCOTLAND

 

It was always my opinion that Theresa May was foolish not to have accepted the ruling of the English High Court when they said that the UK parliament should have the final say on triggering Article 50.

Much better to accept it, put it before parliament and move on.

After all, it seemed to me unlikely that parliament would vote to disregard the result of a legally held, even if not binding, referendum. Tory MPs would, I thought, by and large support the government’s view and enough Labour MPs would most likely vote the way that their constituents voted (largely leave) to ensure that the Bill to give the government permission to remove us from the EU with all that entails, would pass.

For some odd reason, however, May decided not to accept the British judges’ British justice and instead take their case to the UK Supreme Court with an appeal, which they have now lost. (Never mind the cost though, we’ve got piles of cash!)

Those papers, like the Diana and the Heil, who considered the High Court judges to be “enemies of the people” for pointing out what the law stated, must by now have added the Supreme Court judges to that list. I suppose that we shall have to provide police protection for these judges too, lest the hatred that the Mail and Express, the Star and the Sun whipped up, erupt into some sort of violence. (Never mind the cost, we’ve got piles of cash, again!)

So, it was never about whether Article 50 would be triggered or not. It was about the law. About whether the power of the Crown could deny parliament its say in this case.

It is fairly important when embarking on a stupendously important piece of legislation, that it should be done legally. And surely it was better to find out now that Royal Prerogative was not a legal means of triggering this article than in say 9 months’ time when embarrassingly someone points out to David Davis that he didn’t have the power to proceed, has broken the law, and all his negotiations are invalid. Oeuf sur le visage, or what? Oops sorry, that’s foreign!

Indeed you would have thought that somewhere in the massive organisation that is the British government, there might have been someone who would quietly advise them of how the law stood on these matters. Clearly not, though. Such is the joy of having either an incompetent government that doesn’t understand the law of its own land or, more likely, an egotistical one that refuses to listen.

In any case, there is now to be a bill on Article 50, and they could have saved themselves a month (and a lot of our money) had they just known a bit more, or listened a bit more.

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UK Supreme Court unanimous that this is not a devolved matter. Comprehensive defeat for the Scottish Government.

++++++++++

The Supreme Court also ruled that the opinions of the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish parliaments/assemblies need not be considered.  The matter is a UK one and not for devolved governments.

This was greeted with much glee by Professor Tomkins who tweeted joyfully that this was a blow for the Scottish government (something he obviously relishes), seemingly unaware that his own government and prime minister had received an equal, if not greater, blow at the hands of the Supreme Court.

In fact, unless the Supreme Court had ruled that any one of the devolved administrations could overturn the Westminster parliament’s decision, it was never going to make any difference.  Our opinion may have had to be legally sought, but it was never going to change anything. And why should it? If England has 85% of the population; it has 85% of the clout.  No matter how strongly we, Northern Ireland or Gibraltar feel, we are simply too small to call the tune.

(This is NOT a criticism of the judgment of the Supreme Court. They have interpreted the law as it exists. I’ve no argument with that.)

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Retweeted your Retweet
2h:

So it is as we suspected – the “most powerful devolved parliament in the world” is just a branch office that has no say or authority at all.
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Is it a blow to the Scottish government?
Well, hardly, I’d say. Au contraire! Oops, sorry, foreign again.
The Supreme Court has effectively ruled that we are not equal partners in the union and are not necessarily entitled to our opinion being regarded. It simply legitimises what we have always said. It’s an unequal union.
Mr Tomkin’s “comprehensive defeat” will probably convince some waverers that the Scottish legislature is, as someone once famously said, “a wee pretendy parliament”.
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54 thoughts on “KNOW YOUR PLACE, SCOTLAND”

  1. So it appears that all the claims by Scruffy Fluffy and his mates about Holyrood and where it sits in the league table of powerful devolved parliaments were as WE all knew at the time of his “claims” nothing more than another *YAWN* … LIE!

    I think the next couple of months, and it is only 2 months now, will be quite interesting.

    Firstly we have the “Famous 56″who will be tabling something like 50 amendments to whatever bill the screwed up Tories bring to the chamber.

    We then have the fun watching the unelected chamber “debate” whatever bill the Tories put forward, well those that can stay awake long enough that is.

    Finally we have all the fun of the fair as the Joint Ministerial Commission meet to discuss … erm … Brexit something that will be treated with distain by Mayhem and her motley crew thanks to today’s judgement ripping up the Act of Union and telling the devolved parliaments to get back into their boxes and do as they are told.

    I think one final thing is now clear. Thanks to the judgement we all know now what we were already pretty certain about and that is Mayhem and her gang will completely ignore the paper produced by the Scottish government whilst Mayhem was still trying to figure out what to do with the pen and fag packet lying on her desk in front of her.

    Rant over. LOL

    Liked by 2 people

      1. Oh don’t get me wrong Tris I am impressed … deeply impressed that the Supreme Court has handed the Scottish Government another humongous nail to knock into the coffin of the broken union.

        I just love it the way that the harder THEY try the MORE we end up with ammunition to finally kill off this ludicrous xenophobic broken union.

        Liked by 3 people

  2. Hey, stop speaking foreign like some homme du monde. Oh no, now I’m at it as well. Scheisse. Make it stop!

    Today’s judgement was the last hope to avoid Brexit. Ah, there’s always the Parliamentary Labour Party. Like I said, today was the last hope.

    Nicola Sturgeon didn’t mince her words today. “not worth the paper it’s written on” or something like that. It’s not often you see a politician be quite as open as that with their frustration. Most refreshing.

    I also see the legal test of the power of the Scottish Parliament as a positive. As you pointed out, it ought to put an end to the lie involving superlatives of devolution. To be frank, Zurich Canton has far more power than the Scottish Government. In some ways I’d even say that of Zurich City. Both, for example, raise their own tax and set their own budgets from that income. Both have a huge role in granting citizenship. In the old days they even granted resident and employment rights, although that was some time ago. Scotland has none of those powers.

    Like

    1. Ich entschuldige mich. It’s a filthy habit I got into and e non posso fermarlo.

      You said something there about the Labour Party? What are they again? Is that a Swiss thing, like cuckoo clocks and smooth milk chocolate and those long horn things?

      I liked what the SNP people have been saying, and I’ve enjoyed reading tweets from people who have said that today changed things for them.

      As Nicola said, the judgement shows that there is no legal obligation on the British government to consult with any of us in the fringe countries. It’s probably a question of decency and political savvy now as to what extent we are consulted. So, I’m not holding my breath.

      I still say our parliament should debate it adn then summon Fluffy and get him to take it to his mistress. The Scottish Greens are not represented in the UK parliament, and the Scottish Libdems, and Labour parties only slightly. It’s the only way their voices will be heard.

      We already know what the Tories’ only representative thinks, and that is what Mrs May tells him to think.

      This is Nicola’s response in full.

      http://www.snp.org/nicola_sturgeon_uk_supreme_court_ruling?mc_cid=28c7b13124&mc_eid=1ca95dc803

      I understand that the regional parties in Belgium will have a bigger say in Brexit than Scotland will. Indeed they will have the power to block any agreement. Lucky old them.

      Still, we have the most powerful devolved government in the universe and the infinite plains of whatsit.

      Oh mar mìorbhaileach a bhith co-ionnan Com-pàirtichean.
      (Not foreign this time!)

      Like

      1. Die Labour Partei is vorbei. They used to be something and now they are almost nothing.

        The Government don’t gain much in consulting with Scot Gov so I can’t see them doing that in any meaningful way. Both sides want incompatible outcomes, anyway.

        How wonder to be an equal partner, indeed (thanks to google translate there)

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Ach, admit it, Terry, your a true Gael!

        There seems no way we can both have what we want. They seem to be unwilling to look at a way where we can continue be in the single market which means so much to our industry. I’m not suggesting it would be easy, but I’m thinking that, given that they think they are one of the greatest countries on earth, they might be able to work something out?

        Yes, once upon a time there was a Labour Party.

        For all our lovely Aussie mates… Die Labour Partei is vorbei. = the Labour party is in the past!

        Like

  3. Aas Iain McWhirter tweeted “you’ll have had your legislative consent”. Yes this family of nations is one where England is the dad and it’s an old fashioned patriarchy where the children are seen and most definitely not heard. So the closest of federalism you can have – mince. Equal partners – mince. Don’t leave, stay and lead – mince.

    If indyref2 fails then I will be a stateless person as my country Scotland will be confirmed as an internal colony of England. Indy campaign needs the gloves off next time – be positive yes but put the boot in when it comes to perfidious Albian’s lies.

    I think we all need cheered up

    Like

    1. Yep… agreed with all that.

      Now on to the lovely things in life. How wonderful it would be to have that kind of relationship with an animal.

      My mice never want me to sing to them. They just want better cheese! And more of it.

      Like

  4. Snigger ! so the huff puff nats and their permanent air of grievance/slight
    chip on shoulder is confirmed well it would be its the nats delusion writ large.

    Now nats all you gotta do is convince the rest or majority of Scots to support
    your notion of an Independent Scotland.
    well that didnt work last time and wont next thats when Nicola get the guts
    to call for one at the mo she is transfixed with the polls showing a massive
    massive NO to separation.
    we the yoons (as conan would say ) won easily last time and will knock
    you for six next time please please BRING IT ON its time we nailed you
    nats once and for all get that referendum on the go ,..cant wait

    Liked by 1 person

  5. Holyrood was only supposed to put a Scottish face on decisions taken in London and that has now been completely exposed in the courts of England.
    However,with a hostile “executive” in charge at Holyrood,they now run the political risk of their decisions being rejected by the Scottish parliament.
    It’s what happens next that gets us into interesting territory.
    Article 50 will be executed by Westminster whatever Scots say because British Labour have agreed to do that giving May and friends the numbers they need.
    Better Together all over again.
    For Scots,it really now is a question of whether we are a country in our own right or a region of England and that will be what decides the outcome of indy2.
    No more Devo Max/Federalism promises,just simply either we make our own decisions or allow our neighbour to continue doing so for their benefit.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. Isn’t it funny Bringiton. The parliament was set up so that there would always be a Labour-led coalition with the Liberal Democrats in charge. And they hoped for a long life in Westminster.

      How these days have changed. Even with this ridiculous bunch of haybags in London, Labour is divided and hopelessly inept, and in Scotland the two partners in that coalition have become the third and fifth parties respectively.

      How are the mighty fallen?

      Englandshire becomes more and more a truth. Parish Council, you said Mr Blair.

      Like

  6. Remember Cameron pleading “Don’t leave the UK, you can lead the UK”.

    Well, it’s clear that we can never lead the UK. Let’s leave it as soon as possible.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Hoots mon! Ya daft buggas. We Doon unner peopl didnae dae fureign wurds.
    Google translate disnae wurk on comments.
    WTF cannae ye no provide wan for us way dawn sauther’s

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Struth cobba, you kangaroos don’t speak foreign? How do you communicate?

      Munguin translate (at no extra cost):
      Oeuf sur le visage: Egg on da face;
      Au contraire is of course Aussies are contrary!

      That Terry comes from foreign parts so you can expect him to burst in to yodelling from time to time. He can’t help himself. Suffice to say that he swears a bit and a nicely brought up kangaroo like you wouldnt want a translation of what he says.

      Conan, bless him still remembers when they used to speak Latin down the pub. Yes, he looks not bad for his age, but there:
      Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua… The only good language is a dead language. (I just humoured him by telling him he was always right).

      Now then. Don;t say that the mother country isn’t good to you colonials!

      🙂

      G’day sport.

      Liked by 1 person

  8. thats it run the old he is a bit mental flag you know right old loony
    typical of the nats attack the man and not the message or as conan
    flung at me …..ad hominem him being educkated .

    I just wont you lot to proceed asap bloody get on with it tired of your
    endless whining and moaning you lost lost lost thats a fact.
    the problem is you lot live a self selecting echo chamber and just
    keep reinforcing to yourselves the same shared belief …but and big
    BUT you haven’t reached the others outside your exclusive and not
    inclusive delusion.

    you imagine cos the snp won some elections this will lead to
    those who voted against the snp alongside those who did not
    vote at all . Will now thanks to the nats permanent sense of
    grievance rush to the Independence cause.
    well they wont follow a bunch of lemmings over the cliff
    if anything the majority for the Union will be even more
    massive then the last massive win for the yoons.

    Liked by 1 person

      1. Niko must be looking forward to the splendid isolation of a trade deal with Mr Trump.Probably worth remembering that Trump said that Britain would jump to the front of the queue in the trade deal stakes and that EVERY trade deal he negotiated would put America first.

        Prepare to be Trumped Maggie May, I mean Tessy.

        Like

      1. Ha ha… careful Conan. Mr Hunt will be after you. He’s desperately short of surgeons since he told them all they’d be redundant as soon as he had some decent English replacements.

        You really don’t want to end up cutting of limbs for Mr Hunt. Of Mr Hunt maybe…

        Like

  9. Tris

    I’ve had a wee say today also but from a slightly different angle https://grumpyscottishman.wordpress.com/2017/01/24/bbc-scotland-and-the-yoons/ but reaching pretty much the same view as yourself.

    I feel that we are now at the stage where we either have a second referendum very soon or we just go ahead and repeal the act of union, obviously while that is one that I would support most people wouldn’t so it will probably have to be a referendum. What I do know though is if we lose the next one then it’s over for me, I won’t blog and I won’t vote and would not be against the abolition of the Scottish parliament. If we are stupid enough to reject our soverignty a second time then we will deserve all that come our way, as I noted what England wants England gets and we will be saying we are just a part of the larger England.

    So while I was not at all surprised by the judgement and like you I do not blame the judges, I hope the no voters that believed the unionist pish wake up and see that we have no voice in the United Kingdom, not enough for anyone to really care. Wonder if Kezia, Ruth and Willie are having a party tonight with the Prof celebrating another day when Scotland is more of the region they want it to be, we lose again lets rename Scotland England because we will not be a country or deserve to be considered one, it will be over.

    Bruce

    Liked by 2 people

    1. If we go for it and lose then I’d say that was it.

      And yes, probably there’s not much point in blogging again. If people like being treated like ****, so be it. (Eh, Niko?)

      I can’t imagine being in that situation and I’d certainly be looking to see if i couldn’t find a job abroad. I couldn’t live with a permanently right wing government which is what we will have in the UK.

      I can’t live in a country that hates foreigners because,…erm they are foreign.

      Maybe Kangaroo will take me in…(although I’m not convinced I could learn Australian!) or maybe Switzerland sounds nice, apart from the cold.

      The South of France sounds more my cup of tea, Panda?

      No point in asking Danny or Jon, their government is even more xenophobic than the Brit one.

      Yes, I imagine that Professor Two Jobs is probably throwing an “in you face” party… maybe even Professor emeritae Jill is there as his hostess with the mostest… Sounds like fun, huh?

      I do hope Willie behaves and doesn’t spill things down his clean shirt.

      I’ll be over at yours later.

      Like

      1. Move to America, marry a billionaire and in about 80 years one’s child will become President.

        Yeah, hard not to see why the Scottish Diaspora continues to this day.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. If this all keeps trailing on…

        My suggestion, mad as it might seem, is that at the next General Election, the SNP should go for broke. In their manifesto, they should state unequivocally , that a vote for them is a vote for separation.

        I say that on the clear understanding that we would lose lots of seats. On the other hand I think we would win enough for it to become a reality.

        Thoughts?

        Liked by 1 person

      3. Munguin is fond of the sun… and you have nice animals about the place too.

        Need to do something about the snakes though. Munguin isn’t fond of them. 🙂 🙂

        Like

    2. The Scots haven’t the balls to take their independence. The yoons know it. They can piss on us and we’ll complain its too wet, but we won’t stop them from pretending its just rain.

      I’m sick of reading stirring pleas from armchair blawhard revolutionaries. For goodness sake just get up off your knees and fight them. The Wallace didn’t wait for instructions. He just got on with it. So all of you, just get on with it. If we can sway enough people it will show up on the polling. And once Nicola knows she will win, then she will call it, and we can get the damned thing over with. I’m too old to emigrate, and I have never called myself English in my life.

      So fuck the Union. Scotland is ancient Nation. Walk the walk, enough of the cheap talk.

      Liked by 3 people

      1. Fighting talk there. I remember the last time, what energy, what comradeship. The atmosphere was awesome. And right at the end, when we had won, Cmeron changed to goalposts and got his under butler to pay a flying visit to Scotland and lie through his teeth to us. Brown won.

        I don’t think he’d win again.

        No let’s do it.

        Like

  10. Overall a good day, the Vow, Smith Commission and the Scotland Bill shredded, a Britnats word is his ……., well you can fill in the blank. Devolution is dead and any thought of this nonsense of a federal Britain can be binned. The SC based their decision on English law, so questions to be answered there. By using and admitting that the Sewell Convention wasn’t worth the paper it was written on allowed them to body swerve the Treaty of Union, but as with everything associated with westminster, its a short term gain.
    We didn’t expect this to go any other way, surely. Europe will be watching just how bad the democratic deficit is in this glorious union.
    England signed up to the Treaty of Union, equal partners in law, International law, not English law.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. Golfnut,

      We, in this tiny corner of sanity all agree. Personally I’d like to see a few opinion polls, indeed any opinion polls that suggest that all of this is making a difference. It should, as god made little green apples, but we need to know.

      Why the heck hasn’t there been an opinion poll for yonks? Apart from the SNP one that kept schtum ( wrong spelling, right spelling?) on the big question.

      We really need more information. Perhaps in a week or two.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I am not really all that concerned about opinion polls at the moment, we started at 28% for indyref 1 and ended at 45%, and so far that has remained absolutely rock solid.

        That’s our starting point this time. Whatever Mundell and Davidson say about there being no appetite for another referendum, that 45% is the figure that has them worried.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Plus they have little to fight with.

        Last time we moved from 24% to 52 +/- then with the Vow and Gordon Brown’s promises on behalf of David Cameron, it went back down to 45%. Imagine folk believing David Cameron!!!!

        If at least a part of this is about Brexit then Ruth has burnt her boats. She fought so admirably for what Nicola is fighting for, and then accepted the results based on an English/Welsh vote and folded her tent and argued on the other side. (So did Fluffy but no one noticed.).

        She is not a UK politician, even if she’d like to be some day. She is a Scottish politician. She should have fought on for Scotland, but she put her own future before Scotland’s.

        Frankly the Labour party has become a farce. It seems that whatever Kezia says, Jeremy contradicts within days. Their effects will be negligible

        Then there is the Liberals. Well, surely they of all people have to fight for Europe or at least a single market. That’s supposed to be what they are all about. Tim nice but dim is rallying his 8 men to vote against the UK government, Willie always does what he’s told by the big boss man in the big Westminster palace.

        We all know that most of the material they used before has been disproved. The Little Black Book tells us that.

        Armed forces reduced (No big fight from Jackie Baillie, strangely.)
        Tax Offices closed and moved to London.
        Passport offices closed.
        Orders of ships halved and then put on hold
        Sewel convention not worth the vellum on which the Lords wrote it.

        And so on.

        They were all lies. OK, there are people who are stupid enough to believe it all over again. But not many.

        Liked by 1 person

  11. I know Rev Stu is supposed to be entering the fray. But we need something that gets main stream attention, and maybe the Rev Stu will. Sadly I do not recall his polls being other than criticised by our beloved media.

    New rules: “Popularity as an alternative news outlet is inverse to media lurve”, or summat.

    Crazy?

    Yes it is.

    Anyway, we here may be small in comparative numbers, but we are sharing perhaps the best independence site on t’internet.

    Just saying.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. My, what an intellectual group we are. All we need now is Niko chipping in in ancient Greek.

      But yes. That is the point East Neuker, if not now, when?

      It seems like a not bad time, and as Brexit comes nearer and the fall out hurts people, it is bound to sway more.

      Of course the Diana and it’s likes will blame foreigners for whatever befalls us, so we have to be prepared and put up a good fight against that.

      Like

    1. We know that Theresa ruled out Nicola’s sound proposals only a short time after they were published, and Fluffy rubbished them.

      He’s quite funny really. He’s an inarticulate little man, of little consequence, there only because quite literally there was absolutely no one else. But somehow he managed to pull himself up to his full height and declare against the wishes of the people he was appointed to represent in the UK government. (Appointed rather than elected.)

      It’s true that in Europe we would be sitting at a table as an equal, without a ridiculous little no mark completely in thrall to his boss, representing us.

      Suits me.

      Liked by 1 person

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