SO, THERE YOU HAVE IT

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41 thoughts on “SO, THERE YOU HAVE IT”

  1. Remember my four point mantra about Tories – one being what they accuse others of is what they are doing themselves?

    St Teresa really needs to see a psychiatrist about this self harm business.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. It’s the ingrained sociopathic tendencies, May and her cronies have for hurting everybody else that worries most, and I think there is little doubt that the poor will head that list.

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    1. Well, if the idea is to have an offshore tax haven, the rich will do very nicely, but we can kiss goodbye to public services. And god help the old, sick and poor.

      Not a state I want to grow old in.

      Liked by 1 person

    1. Munguin has his somewhere too. Must rake them out.

      The window stickers on Munguin Towers and on the car are still there, and the yes t shirts are around somewhere.

      Who was it that said Bring it on?

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  3. I’m a bit confused. The First Minister issued a statement about how none of this is in Scotland’s interests but it is a long, long way from declaring a 2nd indy ref. I know she is being cautious but it seems clear to me that the line has now been crossed. What more evidence would she require to declare indyref2? Anyone got a clue what is going on?

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    1. Terry Entoure,

      I agree, the line has now been crossed. I think Nicola is waiting for that to be reflected in public opinion. When she see’s that mood swing, then she will grasp it.

      But it has not happened yet.

      Sadly, it may take a little while. For what a government, Nicola’s, see’s as beyond the pale is not, necessarily how the voters see us.

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        1. Yes, of course it isn’t at all valid, Terry.

          But you wonder why papers like the Sunday Post, rigidly British, conservative and Conservative would attempt such a poll.

          Odd.

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    2. Its up to us. Yes is springing up. Dig about, join up, start to fundraise and campaign. Independence is about us, not politicians, not Nicola Sturgeon or Patrick Harvey. Its about our right to self determination. Don’t wait for the bus, start your own bus company.

      I am filled with both trepidation and excitement. We are going again. Lets do this.

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      1. It’s scary, David. Because if we get it wrong this time, we’ll never get another chance quite like it.

        But you’re right, of course. Nicola’s job is to listen to us.

        Of course she probably does this through polling.

        But I kinda hope that she moves on it soon.

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    3. I don’t think it can be long, Terry.

      I guess what mayhem said today was that the Scottish government would be listened to.

      I imagine that Nicola is giving her the opportunity to do that; possibly waiting for the UK supreme court decision?

      I’m not making excuses for her, though. I think she may have to act soon.

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      1. There will come a point when it comes across as prevarication. Not sure when that is, though, which is why I write software for a living instead of making political decisions. I’m guessing it has to be soon – weeks rather than months.

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    4. She’s waiting at least until Article 50 is actually triggered. Possibly until negotiations officially start and both sides lay out their starting positions.

      It’s been obvious for a while that Sturgeon would never pull the trigger on IndyRef2 until Article 50 was invoked. That’s why David Cameron didn’t do it – his third phone call was reportedly to Sturgeon. What screwed up the timing was Article 50’s postponement – a lot of people said and thought it would happen on the morning of the results.

      So why does Sturgeon have to wait? Because there’s a risk that calling IndyRef2 before Article 50’s trigger would serve the UK government a great excuse to delay Article 50 even further – and then subsequently fight IR2 on the basis of the status quo.

      That has grave consequences, not only for IR2’s chances of success, but also for Scotland’s relationship with the EU. They do not want A50 to be delayed, they want the obstructionist UK removed from the political bloc ASAP. It would lose us a good deal of diplomatic and international goodwill if the above happened. Whereas the opposite happens if we pull the IR2 trigger AFTER A50 – the UK bargaining hand is weakened.

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      1. That’s an excellent point, Alan.

        There is going to be a lot of waiting around. If the First Minister waits until events start to unfold we could be looking at early summer before indyref2 is announced. This is turning into a game of cricket.

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      2. Yes, bang on, Alan.

        And until the negotiations start no one really knows how much the Scots (Irish/Gibraltarians) will be considered.

        Imagine if Nicola called a referendum and then, in negotiations, May offered a raft of concessions. It would be like the vow all over again. Yes, absolute rubbish, but none the less, people believed it (or at least enough to make a difference).

        I’d say, let have May and her Brexiteers, lay out without any dubiety, their plans. Then, when Nicola can be shown to have busted a gut trying to get concessions for Scotland (particularly when concessions are granted elsewhere) and to fulfil the wishes of the Scottish people to a) stay in the Uk and b) stay in the EU, and been rebuffed, then go for it.

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      3. Yeah, Terry… Long drawn out and with periods when nothing much happens. Just like cricket.

        But on balance it is probably better than trying to play rugby on the cricket pitch…. and then being, erm stumped.

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        1. LOL Yeah, I guess they will have to call it something else this time, given how the last one was hardly reputable.

          What was it the Liberal Democrats had when they signed something in blood about tuition fees? A pledge, wasn’t it?

          They could try that again. 6 years on a lot of people will have forgotten.

          If not they can try: oath, promise, bond, covenant, commitment, avowal, profession, sworn statement, affirmation, attestation, assurance, word, word of honour, guarantee; archaictroth; rareasseveration, averment.

          Word of honour might get laughed at and the last three are a little obscure… Still, they do have to find something a bit striking!

          Rareasseveration sounds splendid… Glad I don;t have to pronounce it.

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  4. http://marksimonfrankland.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/lets-try-and-stop-this-lovely-family.html

    That is the reality of what we do to people under the current regime. It is frankly a gothic novel tied up in a horror story. I would not wish that on my best friend.

    If for no other reason I would vote independent right there, right now.

    If we have to have immigration controls, I am unconvinced, then having an immigration service that treated people with a bit more respect than that would be pretty simple, and it a bit more respectful. People that have lived here for large chunks of their lives would be seen as Scottish citizens, and their nearest relatives would be treated as ‘shoo in’s’ for a similar status

    I made a trivial contribution to that appeal. Mark Frankland could get money out of a stone.

    But is should not be up to charities to ‘do their best’. How the heck is it reasonable, in a western democracy, for me to pass a ‘collection point’ in supermarkets for what you want to pass on to the bereft? I have no objection to them doing the best they can, but it is utterly ridiculous that they have to. Equally, Mark Frankland, a man I admire a lot, should not be expected to hover over a key, deciding whether or not yet another appeal is a step too far.

    We will continue to contribute, but, frankly, if we had our freedom, it wouldn’t be necessary.

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    1. Done too.It breaks my heart when I read these stories. And Mark’s stories are from a small town in the borders. Imagine how many people suffer horribly in our cities.

      I can never deny Mark.

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  5. The unionists continue to dance around the Treaty of Union and pretend that Scotland doesn’t exist as a distinct entity.
    Cameron,however,put paid to that lie when he agreed to be bound by the outcome of our referendum.
    He wouldn’t have done that for Manchester,Yorkshire or possibly even Wales because none of those entities meets the internationally recognised criteria for a nation state.
    However,here we are with a bunch of nutters in Westminster determined to take England back to the dark ages and anyone else they can drag along with them by pretending that the UK is a one nation state and that our wishes therefore don’t count.
    I think they are just afraid of the dark and want someone to hold their little hand.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Well, they probably should buy themselves a torch or something.

      Mid, they seem to have sold off the national grid to China, so maybe they will have to ask Mr Xi for a light?

      Let’s get out of this mess before we are living in the third word offshore tax haven.

      Liked by 1 person

  6. The Brexiteers and their press pack punting the idea that they will be negotiating terms with the 27 countries that make up the EU.
    The reality is that they will be doing so with the EU as a collective albeit having the outcome ratified by each individual state.
    The Tories have no concept of collective action which is why they conflate the UK with England and only England gets to decide major dcisions that affect the union,that being a reserved matter.
    Ckearly they view our government as having the sole purpose of implementing decisions made in England.
    At least on that they are consistent.
    During our referendum,they did claim that the Treaty of Union extinguished Scotland as an entity when it became part of Greater England,perhaps Great Britain should be rebranded as Great England (well perhaps Great is stretching it a bit).

    Liked by 1 person

  7. I feel the statement that Parliament and the LORDS will get a vote on Brexit, but not the democratic entities of Scotland, Northern Ireland, Gibraltar and Wales, has not had the publicity it deserves.
    How does the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands fare in this?

    Liked by 1 person

    1. None were ever in the EU. Gibraltar has different status as British overseas territory while Jersey and Guernsey are crown dependencies… nothing to do with the UK but with allegiance to the crown. (Guernsey includes Alderney and Sark as dependencies). Likewise the IoM is a crown dependency. Effectively they are independent countries and Liz’s army protects them.

      I agree that more should be made of the lack of accountability of our devolved parliaments. After all, each of the countries and some devolved parliaments in Europe will have votes.

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