UK PARLIAMENT CONVENTION ON REFERENDA RESULTS

1We know that in the absence  any written constitution, the Establishment largely make up the rules as they go along, but this Select Committee report from 2010 seems to set out what the situation is…ie that because of the sovereignty of parliament referendums cannot be binding in the UK and are therefore advisory, although difficult to ignore…

It will be interesting how that is interpreted.

I’m not a lawyer, but it seems to me to suggest that parliament has the right to debate Brexit, but that there would have to be a very good case for ignoring the result.

Maybe 52-48 is not “decisive”. Maybe the fact that Gibraltar, Northern Ireland and Scotland, 3 of the 5 constituent states involved, voted more solidly NOT to leave makes the overall result less convincing and a case for ignoring it.

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17 thoughts on “UK PARLIAMENT CONVENTION ON REFERENDA RESULTS”

  1. That is English law, parliament being sovereign.
    In Scots law the people are sovereign.
    So how are the Tories going to square that circle? Some sort of fudge, bullshit committee, try and ingnore it?
    Interesting times ahead, we the people of Scotland versus a load of ad hoc Anglo centric tosh made up to make England superior to the other “home nations”.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Yes. It is interesting. Tony Blair was warned about the sovereignty of the PEOPLE of Scotland and how that might be interpreted by law, particularly in as much as the use of royal prerogative/royal power was concerned, back in 1997 when the Scottish Parliament was being set up.

      Giving Scots a genuine place to express their opinions was, in the view of many, a foolhardy thing to do.

      In that much, we must thank Mr Blair for putting us on the road to independence. The clear show of support for the EU by the Scots in that referendum; the majority in the Scottish parliament for remaining in the EU and a similar view among our representatives in their parliament could be taken as a reasonable expression of the will of the Scottish people.

      It will be interesting to see if the courts uphold previous rulings backing the original settlements of 1707, etc.

      The UK government are looking like fools just now. If the only person really backing you up is Donald Trump, then you should assume that you are in the wrong place.

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    2. The only way to square the circle is for the EU to disintegrate before A50 is triggered so there is no need for Brexit. Otherwise, assuming both Holyrood and Scots at WM vote against and they do trigger then the Union in its current form is IMHO legally over.
      We could of course then offer them a new treaty with more suitable terms, if that was the considered will of the Scottish people. At least the terms would make for a robust and interesting debate with our fellow countrymen and women.

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      1. I wonder if the EU will come to Britain’s rescue and disintegrate. Of course, there are strange things happening all over Europe and the political pendulum swings to the right. most importantly what happens with France and Germany in the upcoming elections will surely be important.

        But I think it’s what has happened on these islands that is more important.

        As Mrs Thatcher made greed respectable, the “Loadsamoney” yuppy burning his £20 note in front of poor people, this government has legitimised once again, racism and hatred of the poor and the sick… and probably the old.

        Led by the rantings of the Daily Mail, Sun, Star and the Daily Diana, and backed up by the hate talk at the Tory conference, it seems to me the whole mood has changed.

        And having seen clips of last night’s Question Time, it’s very clear that Scots have joined the ranks of foreigners as far as the BBC is concerned. Scotland is in a worse situation than Greece. How would you pay our social security bill without us?…said some thin blonde whose name I didn’t get, sitting next to Alex Salmond.

        Carry on Mrs Whoever You Are. Spread your hatred of us. Very soon the Daily Mail and the Diana will be telling the government to get rid of us. We’re foreign after all.

        And where the Daily Mail leads, Mrs may’s grubby second rate government will follow.

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    1. Just for you, buddy boy. I happened upon a way to make it happen… (by accident if I’m honest) but I was so happy that I could satisfy your Cactus desire. |In the meantime I did add some in the side bar.

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  2. “hat because of the sovereignty of parliament referendums cannot be binding in the UK and are therefore advisory, although difficult to ignore…”

    The supremacy of parliament (Commons) isn’t ‘made up’ by the establishment, it has been the binding constitutional settlement of the United Kingdom since at least 1688 and the ‘glorious revolution’.

    Sorry of the British constitution isn’t amenable to another (unwanted, by most Scots) separatist push. But we are a nation of laws, and even the Nats must respect this.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Once again, that is English law NOT Scots law.
      The separatists are the Tories, separating the people of Scotland from the EU, against the expressed will of the people, and against all promises made during a previous referendum.
      I can tell by your rhetoric, that you have done the same volt-face as fluffy and tankette commander, both “pro” EU until the big boys and girls in London instructed, otherwise.

      Liked by 1 person

    2. Dean you really need to get up to date. 1688 was English Law not Scots as has been pointed out by jimnarlene above and also on many other blogs. The reference in the article is to a time prior to the 2015 general election where most Scots MPs were unionists, not so after the GE. So we are going to have an interesting situation where the Scots MPs vote en masse against Brexit. I wonder if the three Scottish yoon MPs will vote in accordance with their constituents wishes?

      It’s like watching a slow motion train wreck, knowing that my countryman can get off at the station prior is just great.

      I’ll soon be able to buy the whole of England at the rate the poond is falling.

      Pass the noodles. Oh sorry you can’t buy them at Tesco anymore. Just have to pass the popcorn then.

      PS Just so you get it there is no such thing as British Law or UK Law. The Supreme Court uses Scots judges when hearing Scottish cases.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. How did I miss that?

        1688 was before 1707…

        I think though, that we will only be able to get American popcorn if Trump becomes president and bestows a special trading honour on the UK. One which will happen within two years. Given the UK relationship with the USA, I expect that will mean that the deal won’t be much in the UK’s favour.

        I saw that Nicola has said that all SNP MPs will vote against hard Brexit.

        What will the other three do?

        Carmichael? Who knows, and even if he told us we wouldn’t believe him. He has form on being economical with the truth.

        As for the ex- Labour shadow SoS, whose huffy leaving of the shadow cabinet left us with an English MP looking after our interests in Labour, again, it’s anyone’s guess. I suppose noone much has asked him his opinion.

        Fluffy now thinks it’s a brilliant idea to hard Brexit. Amazing how he managed to call it a disaster a few months ago when he was creeping up Cameron’s backside.

        Now he thinks it a wonderful opportunity for us Jocks. So he’ll be voting with the government (otherwise he’d be replaced by yet another lord).

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    3. Look up Lord Cooper of Culross, Dean. He made clear that the constitutional concept of the ‘Crown in Parliament’ has no traction in Scots Law and constitutional practice where the considered will of the people of Scotland is paramount, and even the Britnats must accept this.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Based on the 1689 “claim of right”, stating that the settled will of the Scots is paramount and sovereign. A bit before the acts of union, Dean old boy.

        Liked by 1 person

    4. The constitution largely is “made up” as they go along, Dean.

      Why else would a Lord’s committee have had to pronounce on this matter were it “law!”?

      55%, in a poll for the Herald, I think, said that if it’s a hard Brexit they want another referendum.

      Remember Dean, your leader told us that the only way to stay in Europe was to stay in the UK.

      She lied.

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      1. Jim, there seem to be a lot of them that have done that.

        Pro-EU till the English and Welsh voted out, by a relatively small majority. Bragging about the ‘settled’ will of the Scottish people in our referendum; 55-45. Utterly uninterested in the will of the Scottish people in their referendum by a far larger majority.

        And seemingly uninterested in the fact that they lied through their teeth to us about staying in the EU.

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    5. Dean
      You might also want to read the Declaration of Arbroath of 1320 as it too is Scots Law.

      Mmm. I wonder where the US got their constitution from?

      Now you should have all the information you need to work it all out under Scots Law. I’ll be interested in what you discover.

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  3. Yeah, Conan. That is the main case I was talking about. I couldn’t remember the judge’s name.

    I do remember that Michael Forsyth warned Blair about setting up a Scottish parliament where the will of the Scottish people who be demonstrated, for this very reason.

    I read an authoritative piece on it somewhere, I just can’t remember where.

    This letter is good and sets out some of the principles.

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13044719.Sovereignty_of_the_Crown_in_Parliament_has_no_counterpart_in_Scotland/

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